The Michael Mann poll

more like a pre-make, no?

Oh, well, yeah, I mean, that I get. "Heat" was a "remake" of "L.A. Takedown," in a sense. At one point he was also working with a novelist (iirc) on a formal prequel to "Heat," too. But "Heat" isn't exactly/strictly a remade version of "L.A. Takedown." For that matter, a lot of "Heat" rehashes the themes of "Thief," just on a bigger scale. I do kind of like the idea of Mann's oeuvre just being this amorphous cloud of constantly changing cuts and ideas to be sharpened and refined.

It's totally an example of him thinking he didn't get the film right the first time, and going back to fix it - just a bigger and better version of his tendency than usual :D

If you look at I think what I posted or at least what he has said in interviews, it's actually more interesting than that. He apparently sort of approached the film again as if he had just made it a couple of years before and adjusted his color correction accordingly (I guess?) to be more in line with his aesthetic tastes in more or less 2015 vs 1995. Whereas "Mohicans," "Manhunter," "Ali," "Miami Vice," his post release fiddling was a lot more significant in terms of scenes, edits and so on. "Ali," for example, apparently had 4 minutes removed and 14 minutes inserted into the first director's cut, but the second director's cut actually runs 5 minutes *shorter* than the theatrical cut. It's kinda crazy keeping track of all this stuff. Has any other director been this maniacal about multiple director's cuts? (Aside from Lucas, I guess.)

I was referring to remaking an earlier, twice as long version of the script with huge movie stars in it as “bigger and better” than tweaking the colour grade, not the other way around

Finally watching “The Insider” after many many years of meaning to get to it

It's a masterpiece.

Still have been unable to watch or even find the Blackhat director's cut.

after revisiting the Insider I did find it a little overfed

I saw it again pretty recently I find it pretty much perfect.

In the second half, Wigand disappears so that Al Pacino can yell a lot.

I watched it for the 1st time the other week and thought it did kinda lose itself somewhere in the back half. Pretty great up until then though.

I think that's key, actually, or at least perhaps not unintentional. Wigand's biggest concern is that he will stick his neck out and then be forgotten, which is exactly what happens in the movie. One of my favorite aspects of the film is how it shifts from being about Wigand to being about Bergman and journalism. I love how he's constantly working on other big stories, moving on to the next big thing.

Iirc The Insider is the only of Mann's films he hasn't fiddled with post-release.

just saw and fucking loved blackhat

did blackhat have its own thread, i could not find it

It gets better every time I see. I only saw the director’s cut once but pretty sure I prefer the theatrical.

I wasn't planning to ever watch it again until I got to see the director's cut, which I guess aired once or twice on cable but seems to be the only major property completely scrubbed from the internet. I had an easier time finding Soderbergh's "2001" cut. My understanding is aside from a few minor tweets the director's cut places the various cyber attacks in a different, more dramatic order?

The internet has a reconstruction some nerd made by cutting the blu-ray version with the cable version himself; the SD version is available legally on the internet for Xfinity subscribers.

i’ve heard about some of the cuts and i’m not sure i’m interested

i am however gonna watch the longer cut of miami vice tonight, a movie i was indifferent to or not ready for when i saw it in the theater and i think it’s gonna change my life now lol

a guy named "my cool man" directed a film called "heat"

you should see the prequel, called Fear of a Black Hat. though weirdly it's got nothing to do with hacking and it's about a fledgling rap group

The director's cut of Miami Vice is definitely a step *down*, because the theatrical cut had one of the coolest cold openings ever and the director's cut replaces that with some speed boat racing, iirc.

The internet has a reconstruction some nerd

Dead link, as have been all the links I've found on the trail of both the director's' cut and the nerd cut.

Michael Mann director’s cuts are all worse than the theatrical IIRC.

I want to say Mohicans is better. I think there are 4 cuts of Manhunter, so who knows on that front. Ali is better, iirc. I don't think Heat is better; changes are minimal, iirc, but he re-color corrected the entire thing, I think. Insider has no director's cut. Collateral has no alternate cut. Iirc he even fiddled with Thief. Public Enemies, no interest in his director's cut (which I think exists). I'd love a director's' cut of The Keep.

Dead link, as have been all the links I've found on the trail

When he said “I’ve disabled this link because it got too popular for my well-meant but flimsy fair-use defense, DM me if you want to see it,” did you DM him or try the link anyway and get frustrated that it was dead?

I'm a passive pirate, not one to email strangers.

i might steal your booty, should i happen to bump into you.

I saw the Blackhat DC when FX aired it. And yeah the big change is he switches up the order of cyber attacks and while opening with the stock exchange and progressing from there is more organic I still think his instinct to change it so it opens it with the power plant stuff was the correct one even if it’s more narratively awkward. It just feels right to see those images earlier imo.

Generally I don’t like the idea of tinkering after the fact. Movies should be abandoned instead of perfected.

From what I read, isn't that how the movie is supposed to open? That is, it's supposed to open with the stock exchange, and the power plant thing was supposed to come in the middle, and that the theatrical version is the one that fiddled with it? I thought I saw that he even had to dub new dialogue into a couple of the Chinese scenes to account for the changes he made at the last minute in advance of the theatrical release.

oh damn thanks for warning me away from the miami vice dc y'all

Miami Vice DC is great. I own it. You can watch it with the sound on or off and it's equally awesome. (I also own the Criterion version of Thief and as far as I know he didn't fuck with that one too much, other than tinting everything blue-gray.)

There are small changes to the rest of Miami Vice that are whatever, but changing the opening is criminal.

i love the speedboat opening of the miami vice dc, the long silent shots set the tone for the rest of the movie

I'm sorry but miami vice is not a good movie

few seem to know this

The only bad parts are the Cuba sex trip scenes. It’s important to keep Foxx on screen as much as possible.

“From what I read, isn't that how the movie is supposed to open?”

Yeah. He changed his mind before the theatrical release. Feeling like he needed to open with that more dramatic attack to grab people.

I'm sorry but miami vice everything after manhunter is not a good movie

Going to go rescreen the Miami Vice trailer that cuts guns clicking as they’re racked to Jay-Z/Linkin Park.

I don’t necessarily dislike the speed boat opening of the Miami Vice DC in a stand alone sense, the slow rising to the surface is kind of otherworldly but putting us immediately in that club seems much more valuable. But sometimes with cases like this I wonder if I would always naturally prefer the first version I saw.

The only bad parts are the Cuba sex trip scenes any scene where Gong Li has dialogue

(I like her but she was awful in MV.)

everything after manhunter? that's bullshit

The director's cut of Miami Vice is definitely a step *down*, because the theatrical cut had one of the coolest cold openings ever and the director's cut replaces that with some speed boat racing, iirc.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, December 29, 2020 2:17 PM bookmarkflaglink

agree. I loved the cold open. I was obsessed with this movie after I saw it, started slinging drugs not long after

I started drinking mojitos.

haha me too.

i'm a fiend for mojitos

(i love miami vice and i'm glad both cuts exist, i'm really enjoying the dc. i agree the "numb/encore" drop is an amazing way to start a movie but i also can't complain about more loving 360 degree speedboat shots)

the photography in the port au prince scenes is totally fucking unreal

Eheh, yeah as I posted previously, watching MV the first time when it was released did nothing to me but then watching it again a couple of years ago it suddenly clicked and I was obsessed with it (I watched it like 4 times subsequently !). It LOOKS so great. Especially the moment when Crockett is outside at dusk (or dawn ?) and the sky is orange/burning. Actually my love of it is quite irrational because objectively it's a pretty common movie, borderline cheesy...
It's also rare to have a big Hollywood action movie with a leading couple in which the female actress is 10y older than the male.
And Jose Yero is so cool.