love* in the time of plague (and by love* i mean brexit* and other dreary matters of uk politics)

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Not unexpected though.

The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 08:44 (four years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72TopWbXJg

Microbes oft teem (wins), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 08:46 (four years ago) link

I can't believe bus drivers are still being put in the unsafe position of having to handle cash. How many more more need to die until its made free or at least subsidised bus passes for key workers. Fucking ridiculous.

calzino, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:01 (four years ago) link

Two local shops I've been to still have a limit on contactless. Are banks still charging small businesses to use contactless?

plax (ico), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:03 (four years ago) link

Lot of people saying this is a GDPR breach, but isn’t something like this, especially over something like party members allegedly trying to throw an election, a matter of public interest? Agree that names of complainants should have been redacted.

Legally the intention behind the leak doesn't make any difference. If it really was leaked with the names of complainants unredacted, as that Open Labour link suggests, then it's a huge and serious data breach. The names and perhaps other details of people who have made complaints about antisemitism or sexual harassment could quite easily end up on any MRA crank or Nazi forum. A lot of the stuff in the report clearly needed to see the light of day but not redacting it is both stupid and indefensible. I don't see how Labour could credibly exclude it from the inquiry.

The people in the WhatsApp group have almost certainly committed gross misconduct several times over as well. It looks like now an inquiry is in motion then things will proceed in a very legalistic way and maybe that's for the best. A lot of the behaviour in the report came from salaried employees and should be unacceptable in any workplace, and how can anyone take a future Labour government seriously when legislating against these things if there is evidence of its failure to get its own house in order?

Stephen Bush made the point that, if you're going to have a big and potentially embarrassing inquiry then it's probably best to do it at a time when most of the country has other things on their minds.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:16 (four years ago) link

xp Card companies, but yeah they are - a shop with a £4 limit on Saturday was very apologetic, but said that the processor had already cut the limit.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:16 (four years ago) link

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/uk-care-home-providers-report-521-coronavirus-deaths

Well here you go, wonder when the official government fatality figures will start to factor non-NHS deaths in? (Answer: never)

quartet for the endocrine (Matt #2), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:18 (four years ago) link

When all this is said and done, the worldwide death toll for care homes is going to be staggering. All the stuff I’ve read about this is horrific.

BBC soft-pedalling the deaths of thousands of British people so as not to be accused of partisanship is vmic.

Stephen Bush’s part about the timing of the inquiry was the only one I agreed with in his piece.

gyac, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:26 (four years ago) link

I've hit the NS paywall limit and didn't actually read the piece itself, just what he was saying on Twitter.

The current top story on the BBC site has the headline "Elderly being 'airbrushed' out of virus figures" and, well, people are going to get the message. But it buries several paragraphs down the point that the death toll is 11% higher than claimed.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:34 (four years ago) link

quite a bleak way to solve the social care crisis I guess

megan thee macallan 18 year (||||||||), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:37 (four years ago) link

We have 10% of the recorded cv deaths in the WORLD? It feels like there’s a disconnect: I remember a week or so before the lockdown - so, a month ago - people at work talking about Italy like “welp, they’re finished”, because that was the nature of the coverage. Can the bbc and starmzy’s air of mild concern really fit the public mood right now with lockdown set to be extended?

On the phone with my mother, who lives in the poorest region of Portugal, and it keeps hitting home how surreal it is that she is in every way better protected than I am (good thing in this case obv).

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:39 (four years ago) link

ONS statistics for England and Wales are released 11 days after the fact, so the numbers for w/e Apr 3 (= week 14) are now available.

5-year average deaths for week 14: 10.3k
Deaths for week 14 of 2020: 16.3k
Number of deaths where Covid-19 was cited: 3.4k

So, yes, seems likely that Covid-19 is directly or indirectly responsible for an extra 6k deaths in that week in England and Wales, not the documented figure of 3.4k. Next week's stats may reinforce this.

I don't think this is unique to the UK by any means; this under-reporting of CV-19-adjacent fatalities will be almost everywhere.

Michael Jones, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:39 (four years ago) link

Was speaking to my mother, who was initially negative about Ireland’s handling of the crisis until I pointed out they are forecast to have 400 deaths by the end of August now? That’s due to a big effort nationally and consistent messaging by the government as much as intrinsic differences in population between the two countries. There was no need for things in the UK to get as bad as they have.

gyac, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:41 (four years ago) link

Underreporting is apparent in every country, not just care home figures, but also where the dead aren’t being tested posthumously or where the symptoms are pretty much clearly covid and the person was being treated as such, but there was never a formal diagnosis.

gyac, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:42 (four years ago) link

we'll probably officially reach one death per minute with the Tuesday bump (though Easter holiday might delay reporting) but from the ONS numbers + RoUK we probably passed that over a week ago

Non, je ned raggette rien (onimo), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:46 (four years ago) link

I think media 'covering up' deaths in care homes will be next to impossible when surely many will know of someone (if not directly affected) in a care home who dies from covid.

Whether that leads to anything is another matter. The issue of how to care for the elderly and vulnerable in society as it currently stands has many layers and looking at it is not going to be the priority when it's all driven up by re-opening economies for business.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 09:55 (four years ago) link

Social care is a major economic issue as well as health/moral issue and will become increasingly so over the next decade. Agree it's not going to be the priority and one major reason is that almost all the proposed solutions are likely to be unpopular. Look at what happened to May and Nick Timothy when they tried to tackle it (and to be fair bungled it completely).

Matt DC, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:02 (four years ago) link

Herd immunity, which isn't the strategy, honest, should knock a chunk off the pension pot, free up loads of care spaces, and wipe out the really expensive oldies.

Non, je ned raggette rien (onimo), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:07 (four years ago) link

i kind of wish i could stop thinking "i'm glad my mum and dad are dead" bcz in a larger sense i am *not* and i miss them and feel bad every time i think this

but dear god its good they did not live to see this and be affected by it :(:( :( :(

mark s, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:08 (four years ago) link

OTM, I feel the same about my mum, who was already getting pretty doddery and confused before she died. The auld fella died years ago tho... and wasn't that, er, auld.

The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:12 (four years ago) link

gyac, there's no way that modelling plays out for Ireland

we're at 365 deaths now, and a massive proportion of the cases/deaths seem to be in care homes

Number None, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:16 (four years ago) link

They’re not lifting restrictions any time soon for Ireland. The spread has reduced drastically and deaths will come down too. But probably overly optimistic.

gyac, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:23 (four years ago) link

i kind of wish i could stop thinking "i'm glad my mum and dad are dead" bcz in a larger sense i am *not* and i miss them and feel bad every time i think this

but dear god its good they did not live to see this and be affected by it :(:( :( :(


I think this about my nana tbf, who had dementia when she went and didn’t recognise any of her children, but at least she was spared this. Never had any of my other grandparents around.

gyac, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:24 (four years ago) link

I think that's an entirely common line of thought right now. The number of people who will lose parents or partners and not be able to grieve or mourn properly, attend funerals, see, comfort or be comforted by loved ones, is the most desperately sad aspect of the crisis. There's no good way to lose a loved one but any way that allows access to vital emotional support has to be better than this.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:31 (four years ago) link

There was an interview quite recently with an undertaker who was saying, quite rightly, that they are an essential frontline service right now and they are not being treated as such and the govt has given very little thought has been given to how they should be working or what should be done to protect them.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 10:33 (four years ago) link

My new favourite thinktank, what a board pic.twitter.com/mhpiba8LzC

— ɹoʇɐɓıʇsǝʌuı uoıʇɐɓıʇsǝʌuı (@TypingOfTheRed) April 14, 2020

😬😬😬😬

gyac, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 11:24 (four years ago) link

Feels a bit unfair to give someone who stopped ageing several hundred years ago a voice on such matters

crisp, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 11:32 (four years ago) link

That's like the Manson Family of think tanks

où sont les threads d'antan? (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 11:35 (four years ago) link

that list of board members definitely needs passing on to the Cheka!

calzino, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 11:36 (four years ago) link

Or, failing that, the Chuka.

The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 11:44 (four years ago) link

heh!

calzino, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 11:47 (four years ago) link

always good to see creepy sex pest and Erdogan apologist John Woodcock still involved in the game!

calzino, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 11:51 (four years ago) link

Has anyone posted this thread (not on the last 50 posts) on outcomes between UK and Ireland?

As of Saturday 11 April, there have been 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people in Ireland.

There have been 14.81 deaths per 100,000 people in the UK.

Guys, people have been dying at more than *twice the rate* in the UK.

— Elaine Doyle (@laineydoyle) April 12, 2020

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 12:40 (four years ago) link

It was posted yeah - it’s a good thread (except when she says the stereophonics are a great band and shouldn’t be singled out for blame - they aren’t and they should). It’s all stuff that the media here must be making a conscious choice to ignore, which is outrageous

Microbes oft teem (wins), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 12:49 (four years ago) link

The Sterophonics have done more towards the cause of breaking up the UK than any other Welsh bands tbf on them!

calzino, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 12:52 (four years ago) link

UK media to a pic of The Stereophonics - "Enemies of the People"

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 12:57 (four years ago) link

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zSUAAOSwehZaKtLk/s-l640.jpg

I thought this was a photoshop when I saw it the other day, they actually did this!

calzino, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:00 (four years ago) link

bunch of canutes

nashwan, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:01 (four years ago) link

Elaine Doyle thread is of course full of Actually guys coming up with (inaccurate) reasons why you can’t compare uk with Ireland

Microbes oft teem (wins), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:08 (four years ago) link

misleading to compare us with countries that aren't crap

mark s, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:14 (four years ago) link

xxp I haven't heard anything about contagiousness of corpse after death though it did coccur to me when I was hearing my dad's body was being transported across the country. He didn't have the virus, just died at a time when I thought doing things like transporting bodies might be problematic.
May be truer at the time of cholera or typhoid or something when the corpse does remain contagious.
Assume taht a dead body is neither coughing nor sneezing so unable to transfer virus taht way but not sure if there are any elements of transfer I wouldn't be thinking of. Just no that just because a body is dead doesn't mean it's in a vacuum so may be able to spread some stuff.
& if you're having to do up a dead body so that it can have an open casket viewing not sure what you would be coming i contact with through that process.

But opf course it wouldn't necessarily be the body itself that had the virus or at least not the only thing taht had. If it died of it it must have had a point of contact that it caught from and that might well be shared with others who would be involved in teh funerary process.
& it's a trying job anyway.

Also as we move into hotter weather , has anything been said about mosquitoes or anything as a possible vector. Hate to find being bitten by something that had recently bit a carrier might lead to some complications.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:20 (four years ago) link

dear god the stphn bsh article on the leaks is some next level dishonest sly shithousery, always cheering to be reminded how totally bankrupt the journalistic class is

ogmor, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:21 (four years ago) link

Not sure Scotland's figures are great but they're much better than England and Wales, I think - but then the Stereophonics haven't played there in a while.

The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:24 (four years ago) link

WHO says there's no evidence to date that mosquitos can spread it

(i imagine they're not being complacent abt this as they do spread many other viruses)

mark s, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:29 (four years ago) link

More evidence for crapness of country:

imagine living in a country where this man was able to rise to a position of any prominence pic.twitter.com/Lo03oGd3F9

— stefan mohamed's official business tweets account (@stefmowords) April 14, 2020

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:45 (four years ago) link

Toby fuckin Young moving the debate forward one agreeable comment at a time

xp!

Toby never lets you down does he pic.twitter.com/nz6mz5c89d

— James Doleman (@jamesdoleman) April 14, 2020

Non, je ned raggette rien (onimo), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:45 (four years ago) link

xps I <3 stphn bsh but that article was a bit much, it's true. it's nice to remember even the ones you like are not on your side

(I'm not even a Labour member and this whole thing has been thoroughly depressing, at an already thoroughly depressing time, sigh)

a passing spacecadet, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:48 (four years ago) link

Bush also worships Cameron and considers him a proper impressive big beast or at least that is the impression I got when he was reading his biography.

calzino, Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:52 (four years ago) link

pretty sure Toby Young gets off on being abused

où sont les threads d'antan? (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:53 (four years ago) link

Not sure Scotland's figures are great but they're much better than England and Wales, I think - but then the Stereophonics haven't played there in a while.


i’ve been impressed by nicola sturgeon’s emphasis at every daily briefing that the infection figures are likely much higher than the stats show - being more impressive than the uk briefings isn’t a tremendous achievement right enough tho

He is married to Brogmus, Linda. (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 April 2020 13:54 (four years ago) link


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