Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

from the WaPo article:

The following question will of course arise for many Sanders supporters: How sincere is Biden about all of this?

A senior Sanders adviser told us that talks have been ongoing for some time between the two sides, with an apparent aim of making the unification of the party smoother than in 2016. The Sanders adviser told us that the Sanders side believes Biden and his campaign genuinely understand that a lot is riding on them making this work.

“The Biden campaign understands that they’ll have to work towards reaching out to progressives and building bridges to unity,” this senior Sanders adviser told us. “We think they’re operating with good intent.”

The Sanders adviser told us that they expect the Biden campaign to roll out these efforts in stages, and that the Sanders team wants to create room for the Biden camp to prove its good intentions in this regard.

“We’ll give them space to make their best case,” the Sanders adviser told us, characterizing the Sanders team’s view of the situation.

As Sanders would no doubt tell you, that kind of influence is possible not only because of the inherent appeal of his ideas, but also precisely because politicians like Biden are not immutable in what they will support. They respond to public opinion and public pressure, which is why you pressure them.

it's worth pointing out that, after having lost, bernie and his campaign apparatus are still invested in furthering his policy goals, using whatever leverage and strategy they can.

this shows, to me, that for bernie and his team improving the country was always the main goal and was desired far more than electoral victory.

i just want this to sink in, given the fact that so many people (not here) accused the bernie side of being a cult of personality and his supporters being potential "spoilers" with no sense of the "greater good"

They respond to public opinion and public pressure....unless of course it means bucking credit card companies in Wilmington, for example, or keeping it illegal for investment banks to gamble with your savings, or or or or or

Not those kind of popular-with-the-public things, but, like the other ones. You know.

well, there wasn't the same level of awareness when that stuff happened. the start was occupy wall street, almost 10 years ago, it's a slow road but the old tricks will not be feasible forever.

this shows, to me, that for bernie and his team improving the country was always the main goal and was desired far more than electoral victory.

fair point treesh

treesh your optimism is admirable

I wish we had a system in which public awareness weighed more than lobbyist influence

I don't mind Sanders team lobbying Biden tbh

they should! we all should push him. clearly it's worth it

Big overture to Bernie Sanders supporters here:

Just In: GOP Senator Josh Hawley (Missouri) proposes a Denmark-style plan where the US government pays 80% of worker wages.

"Beginning immediately, the federal gov should cover 80% of wages for workers at any US biz, up to the nat'l median wage, until this emergency is over" pic.twitter.com/BbcTgiIaXj

— Heather Long (@byHeatherLong) April 9, 2020

better use of the money printer than propping up equities!!

As someone with $80 in the bank, the only pressure I can exert on a politician is withholding my vote.

But then I’m a monster who single-handedly elected Trump...

i'm a few years away from Medicare, but I understand as presently administered it is its own shitshow

They’d want to do a bit better than “lowering Medicare age to 60”.

Hillary ran on lowering it to 55; they can't possibly risk losing by offering such a radical platform in the current climate.

Only 22 more years and I can get this hernia fixed, hell yeah

if I recall, she ran on allowing people 50 or 55+ to buy into medicare, not necessarily automatically enrolling everyone xp

the only pressure I can exert on a politician is withholding my vote.

I agree that poverty exerts a severe crimp on one's political leverage, but I also think you do not understand the multiform avenues of political activism. Did you do any phone banking for Sanders? Throw him $5?

Almost certainly your state legislature probably posts its legislative calendar online, listing committee assignments, hearings and the texts of bills. Joining an email listserv regarding your political interests cost next to nothing. A phone call costs next to nothing. Writing a letter costs approx 50 cents. If you want to leverage your vote, get some neighbors or friends to cosign.

All the things I just listed definitely cost time. They cost thought. They cost effort. Therefore they require some passion and engagement to even get started. But they cost little or no money.

I'll understand if you think it all amounts to nothing in the end. But realize that hopeless citizen disengagement is the biggest boost we give the lobbyists and big donors who are walking all over the supine bodies of the masses.

Did you do any phone banking for Sanders? Throw him $5?

That's irrelevant now to my ability to exert pressure on Joe Biden.

Almost certainly your state legislature probably posts its legislative calendar online, listing committee assignments, hearings and the texts of bills. Joining an email listserv regarding your political interests cost next to nothing. A phone call costs next to nothing. Writing a letter costs approx 50 cents. If you want to leverage your vote, get some neighbors or friends to cosign.

(Also generally not that relevant at all, of course.)

But yes, I did say more broadly "on a politician" - my Senators are John Cornyn and Ted Cruz.

(as an example of why the two things that actually matter are votes and money - no amount of letter writing or calling their offices is going to make them less racist or evil)

None of these things is relevant to the pressure that I can exert on Joe Biden.

Joe Biden is looking for about 68,000,000 votes, give or take a few million. Your desire to directly exert pressure on him is kinda cute. Your assertion that what I listed is irrelevant only confirms my observation that you do not understand political activism. At the national level you seek out a coalition, join it, and do volunteer work for it. Just like you did for Sanders. Politics hasn't stopped just because Bernie suspended his campaign. You sure are defeatist for a radical.

You sure are defeatist for a radical.

ILX in a nutshell

Politics hasn't stopped just because Bernie suspended his campaign.

When you "seek out a coalition and join it" and blah blah blah, you are seeking to combine the giving or withholding of your vote with others. Every person's power, outside of the ability to buy politicians, is fundamentally tied up in voting. Voting for, voting against, not voting at all. What do you think letter writing is, except a threat to not vote for that politician next time and to convince your friends and neighbors to do the same?

When you 'vote blue no matter who,' you've neutered whatever threat you had and you are irrelevant. You're a reliable Democratic voter - and without the money to lobby - they can abuse and ignore you in whatever way they wish and you'll take it.

That's why Warren voters were the deadest weight of the primary - they are the ultimate case of nowhere else to turn. Unlike a certain portion of Sanders voters who won't vote/will vote Green/might even vote Trump, and unlike a smaller percentage of centrist voters they were never a threat to vote Republican - they were going to vote blue regardless of the nominee. That's why Biden has to pretend to ingratiate himself with Bernie voters now and not Warren voters.

When you 'vote blue no matter who,' you've neutered whatever threat you had and you are irrelevant. You're a reliable Democratic voter - and without the money to lobby - they can abuse and ignore you in whatever way they wish and you'll take it.

Unless you support a candidate in the primary. I don't see the binary.

To circle right back to the front, if I 'seek out a coalition and join it,' recruiting people to vote for the Greens or PSL, I'm once again responsible for Trump.

I see you are one of those people who knows the score and can't be fooled. I tried to fool you into thinking your activity could make a difference toward achieving your political ends, but nope, you're too smart for me.

Well, it's Holy Thursday, and if you're Catholic you can expiate by virtually washing a priest's bare feet.

xpost

I forgot about holy thursday! also the day of the last supper

Unless you support a candidate in the primary. I don't see the binary.

If you fold right back into voting for the candidate with bad policies, what difference did that vote in the primary make? How is it going to change the bad politician's bad policies if you're going to vote for him anyway?

What Biden's campaign is doing now is simply an expression of what I'm saying - they've got to convince Bernie voters to come out for him. They don't have to convince you - you're on the record as saying you'll vote for him no matter what. The primary votes of Warren progressives gave them, collectively, zero leverage whatsoever.

Did you read the WaPo article? The Sanders campaign is already influencing them.

Yes, that's what I just said?

Framed differently, of course - I describe that as the Biden campaign is trying to make it appear that the 'Sanders campaign is influencing them' but what we got out of it so far is... Medicare for a few more senior citizens and means testing.

It's going to take a lot more to convince the Bernie voters on the margin not to withhold their votes.

How is it going to change the bad politician's bad policies if you're going to vote for him anyway?

Yeah, I'll vote for Biden anyway because he's not Trump, and Biden will be a better candidate if he's espousing diluted bits of Sanders policy with Sanders approval, so your counter-factual doesn't quite work here.

Such as Joe Biden dying or taking off the scooby doo mask of his entire career

It's going to take a lot more to convince the Bernie voters on the margin not to withhold their votes.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z),

well, that's their fucking problem

xp

Yeah, I'll vote for Biden anyway because he's not Trump, and Biden will be a better candidate if he's espousing diluted bits of Sanders policy with Sanders approval, so your counter-factual doesn't quite work here.

He's not halfheartedly diluting bits of Sanders policy to earn your vote, though, that's the point.

He's doing it to earn mine.

it's not anyone's problem per se, it's just a tradeoff

If Joe Biden is going to win anyway, it makes plenty of a ense for the most left-wing Sanders voters to withhold their votes, on the theory that it will make the Democrats sweat over the margins and wonder what happened to their under-40s.

i assume this is what the Kerry threads were like in 04?

*sense not a ense

Which is, circling back around once again, that the only power held in our shit democracy for someone without the means to buy influence, is to withhold votes and convince others to withhold votes.

Which, in this moment... and really, every four years of my entire life... results in the emotional blackmail of personally being responsible for awful things and results for using the one bit of power the powerless theoretically hold.

Like the recipient of the electoral college votes in both milo’s state and mine is a foregone conclusion, Joe Biden honestly doesn’t need either of our votes.

i assume this is what the Kerry threads were like in 04?

nah even kerry was less pathetic than biden

i am personally very mad that hillary clinton isn't president right now and it's hard for me not to be at least somewhat mad at people who are at least ostensibly anti-Republican that didn't vote for her, even though i understand the why & that she didn't earn their votes.

to be clear i am even more mad that bernie isn't president right now

Most of my ire in that regard goes towards the slaveowning fucks who saddled us with the electoral college.

(Not to mention the Senate)

true