2020 Democratic presidential primary thread, pt 3: life is very long

the Republican Party decided it was time to more closely reflect the will of their voters. might be time for the Democratic Party to do the same.

xxxp better advertising and coherent (if repulsive) world view imo

they actually used abortion as one of the big emotional wedge issues! polling showed that the majority of evangelical christians were ambivalent to abortion as a legal issue decades ago. the moral majority assholes elevated it as a dealbreaker

the basic math is they make you think you're voting to save babies, when you're really voting to give the chamber of commerce complete power

idk I can't recall a time when every single white evangelical wasn't a diehard Republican, I've never met one that was a Democrat.

In our lifetimes, 70% have been (now 80-85+%) - that was my point, responding to mordy's argument that dedicated voters aren't enthusiastic. White evangelical Republicans are the definition of reliable and highly enthusiastic.

On the flipside, African-American women are very reliable and also very enthusiastic.

The idea that the most regular voters aren't enthusiastic is nuts.

the Republican Party decided it was time to more closely reflect the will of their voters. might be time for the Democratic Party to do the same.

― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will),

I do wonder what those judges/justices, Obamacare thing, and that bill last week were about.

enthusiastic about voting != enthusiastic about a particular candidate. the latter does suggest inconsistency imo.

“moral clarity” eve if manufactured, is pretty good at turning out voters.

I think there are lots of younger people in the post New Deal, post-Civil Rights era that honestly don’t know what the Democratic Party actually stands for. Not entirely sure I do tbh.

In this era to expect consistency from the Democratic Party is impossible -- too fractious a caucus. Unlike the GOP, the Dems remain a coalition party with genuine conservative and moderate wings; you might say it absorbed the remaining GOP moderates during the Bush era and has accelerated under Trump.

Abortion is the only wedge issue with staying power at this point. The gay marriage wedge election in 2004 was heartbreaking, and a decade later the tide had turned fairly decisively. In 2016 or so anti-trans “bathroom bills” were passed in a couple places but triggered successful court challenges, corporate boycotts, and more, and there’s not currently (to my knowledge) a mainstream appetite for more of it. But abortion restrictions keep marching through state legislatures.

i think evangelicals have reason to be happy with what trump has gotten them (at least vis-a-vis the supreme court tho overturning roe v wade seems elusive still) but they did not seem enthusiastic about voting for him

*even if

my mom and sister both attend white evang. churches and are lifelong Dems

Democrats belong to a centrist party with liberal-left and conservative wings. They believe in science, reason, a functioning government that regulates social services and protects access to safe abortions, and an enforcement of the Fourteenth Amendment. That I have to mention the first three shows how far we've moved to the right since Reagan; the Republicans before 1980 for the most part believed in those things too.

the democratic party is a huge umbrella brand that encompasses everyone in america left of the republican party. to expect it to 'stand for' things is a fundamental misunderstanding of what it is.

roe v wade seems elusive still) but they did not seem enthusiastic about voting for him

They voted for him in record numbers.

No, there ARE positions it takes, but I've explained it already.

But it may be fundamental in understanding why they can’t stop losing unless they have a rock star candidate

the Republican Party decided it was time to more closely reflect the will of their voters. might be time for the Democratic Party to do the same.

― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will)

and to believe that joe biden is not someone who closely reflects the will of the democratic party voters while bernie sanders is requires some olympic level mental gymnastics

Democratic voters stand pretty far to the left of Biden on most issues.

The real problem is that the Republican Party is not yet a regional rump party so there’s no way for a schismatic left to break away from the Dems and achieve any national success

democratic party voters feel very strongly about *checks notes* keeping healthcare inaccessible and dooming iranians

I guess a decent number are confortable-to-indifferent re the latter

very little overlap afaict between people who vote for Democrats and people who consider ending the forever war a major issue

p much boils down to fact that the GOP donor class doesn’t care about abortion or guns. could not give a shit. or, in many instances, openly embrace the same objectives as the chuds.

meanwhile the big money folks in the Dem party are hostile to uni healthcare and meaningful action on climate change. and I’m honestly not sure how that ever gets rectified.

so much easier to believe that there's some conspiracy keeping sanders down than to accept that sanders campaign - despite having tons of publicity and money - deeply failed to convince more than 35% of the democratic party that bernie sanders was a good choice for president.

if the goal is to elect more left-wing politicians, you probably need to at some point accept that not everything sanders did was massively popular and try and figure out why his ceiling existed.

it’s not a “conspiracy”, it’s just $$$

lol what, in what universe was Bernie outspent

if the goal is to elect more left-wing politicians, you probably need to at some point accept that not everything sanders did was massively popular and try and figure out why his ceiling existed

more of an issue w/ the messenger than the message AFAICT

nobody's actually talking about Bernie Sanders except you today iatee

I’m not talking about campaign spending.

I’m saying that the GOP donor class has no qualms with the wants/ demands of the great unwashed masses in a way that their Democratic counterparts do.

xpost

I mean Mike fuckin Bloomberg is a Dem sugar daddy now, and if you don’t think that comes with strings...

I’m saying that the GOP donor class has no qualms with the wants/ demands of the great unwashed masses...

nobody's actually talking about Bernie Sanders except you today iatee

we're talking about the failure of the hard-left to attract support in a race where the hard-left was represented by bernie sanders, no need to be daft

to expect it to 'stand for' things is a fundamental misunderstanding of what it is.

lmfao, how inspiring

thought we were talking about white evangelical death cult voters

yeah maybe you shouldn't be looking at national politics for inspiration morbs

we're talking about the failure of the hard-left to attract support in a race where the hard-left was represented by bernie sanders, no need to be daft

Bernie is a moderate

and I don’t think it really counts as a “conspiracy” to point out the hostility the party apparatus and liberally aligned pundits have towards Sanders. they’ve dealt with their insurgent flank in a much MUCH different way than the GOP/ Fox did w Trump.

and just ftr, I more or less supported party moves in 2016 to keep Sanders at bay, bc I thought he was “unelectable”. I liked him, thought he was saying good things, but obviously HRC was the “correct” choice. I was wrong.

alright as much as I would love to continue talking about how moderate candidate bernie sanders lost this election because of money I am gonna go do work instead

more of an issue w/ the messenger than the message AFAICT

I thought Sanders himself polled very well?

Bernie is a moderate

Besides, people had an option of a different messenger w a v similar msg and she barely dven registered.xp

stamp of*

yeah maybe you shouldn't be looking at national politics for inspiration morbs

ah I see only the nuts on the other side get to be inspired by Reagan and Trump

Sanders's platform was p hard left by the standards of any wealthy anglo democracy imo.

Besides, people had an option of a different messenger w a v similar msg and she barely dven registered.

what if.....she failed in completely different ways?

in terms of candidates w any shot of winning head-of-govt elections.xp

3rd most popular and 4th most famous Dem, acc to this: https://today.yougov.com/ratings/politics/popularity/politicians/all

i think evangelicals have reason to be happy with what trump has gotten them (at least vis-a-vis the supreme court tho overturning roe v wade seems elusive still) but they did not seem enthusiastic about voting for him

― Mordy, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Very true and 'What will the candidate of the party I normally vote for do for me?' is something Democrat voters on this thread are clearly looking at as well.