2020 Democratic presidential primary thread, pt 3: life is very long

maybe if the recession is bad enough it won't matter, but I don't have a lot of faith in biden's ability to defend himself from the shitstorm that's coming his way.

xp -- also it should probably be pointed out that people's general levels of despair and anger are massively up right now, with good reason, and even if someone was an expert at compartmentalizing that all somehow, politics is not a separate compartment from it

but... Trump is an even bigger hypocrite, so how does that line of attack sway any voters who haven't already made up their minds, or (more critically) increase turnout?

xps

he claims to support african-americans but: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-racial-jungle-quote/

if you think Biden's african american support is going to crater idk what to tell you

of course not

xposts

i just think the whole "running at biden from the left" thing is a consequence of the primaries, where parts of the democratic party try to pain the other as unacceptable villains. the truth is, i think, even fucking mayor pete is to the left of where obama was in 2008. biden wasn't my first, second.....or eighth choice, and i wish he wasn't a million years old and not very good at being a politician, but he is not some sort of secret conservative manchurian candidate that is open to being outflanked from the left. the issues he's been especially bad on - regulating wall street, bankruptcy, anita hill, repeatedly making people feel physically uncomfortable in his presence - are not things that trump is well-suited to left flank him on

KM otm

the trump campaign will propagate quotes like that (which biden has in abundance...) in order to make independents view biden as a liar and de-inspire turnout among young voters

young ppl don't vote

I kinda wonder how the "anti-politician" rhetoric is gonna play this cycle now that Trump has been president for 4 years

i mean, on anita hill and supporting african-americans - people really believe that trump is gonna defeat biden on this?? donald trump?? vs all people, joe biden, who demonstrably has strong support from african-americans?

also lol @ thinking the biggest liar ever calling another guy a liar will be a foolproof strategy

xps

trump is just going to say "we have the lowest unemployment rate in history for african-americans" (fact check: no we don't any more, sadlol), and it's going to land with a resounding thud, like it has the last thousand times

xp -- the "young people don't vote" effect looks a lot starker when presented out of context (i.e. out of context with state/local demographics)

People will attack Biden’s record with black people so white leftists will have a reason to feel better about not voting for him, not because it will do anything to his level of African-American support.

he can still get out of the race and advocate for those policies, btw

Lol, the second Bernie drops and endorses him, Joe will throw his newfound progressive ideas away like a cumrag.

let's leave joe's cumrag out of this

yeah the hypocrite line won't work on anyone who's made up their minds about trump, which hopefully will be 51% of voters (and obv should be!). but there will be a massive ad campaign aimed at independent/swing voters and younger voters to show that biden is a big fat elitist liar. and unfortunately biden was treated with kid gloves all primary. the general public isn't aware how bad biden's record is, which is fertile territory for an attack.

yeah DJP OTM

Some of us should get degrees in grief counseling to handle today's moaning

you could always put that where your degree in Pazz & Jop history should be

someone upthread remarked that no one is going to be paying attention to bernie from here on, as a candidate, except for his own coalition. that's correct, i think.

he should drop out and serve as a leading voice in the senate. the ideas that is championing are needed right NOW, in response to a real crisis. he can be effective by helping put them into action. this is actually a huge progressive moment, i think (if we don't fuck it up)

didn't Sanders himself say words to that effect yesterday?

he should be doing what i always want pelosi to do - be the bridge to the next generation of progressive politicians. get together with a progressive crew of younger politicians, draft legislation, and pull the consensus of the party to the left. expand the safety net, etc. those kinds of idea will never have a more effective backdrop then RIGHT NOW.

white leftists don't swing elections (which, oddly, is something Berniebros always repeat when it comes to how many of them didn't vote for Hillary)

xps

I said "leftist" because white people in general don't give a shit about black people

otm

that seems to be an increasingly cited idea this morning (the GOP running on joe biden from the left)

i think i understand what that means, but i'd like to hear someone else elaborate on it first

i think a lot of you are overthinking this. it's going to be trump vs generic_dem_biden and biden will do very well bc he's not a woman and ppl seem to generally like him and they hate trump

i agree with that outcome. i'm just curious what running to the left of biden even means, practically speaking

i don't think it has a practical meaning - if GOP wants to start advocating for higher min wages, union protections, environmental regulations oh no oh no don't throw us into that briarpatch

unless you think people are going to come out of coronavirus (or in the midst of it) thinking better of trump and his leadership there's no reason to think he's about to become beloved. bad economy, devastating virus = bad news for trump imo.

yep

Running to the left = "here is another iteration of the New Deal, only fuck you if you aren't white and straight-passing" afaict

or in other words, doing what the US does in moments of crisis

so the New Deal then

xpost yes - I've long held that when things get Serious the US turns directly to socialism i.e. wars, recessions, major league baseball stadia

the gop has no credibility to claim they'll pass even a racist new deal. they're dragging their feet to give working ppl a bone even now in the middle of a major catastrophe

Running to the left = "here is another iteration of the New Deal, only fuck you if you aren't white and straight-passing" afaict

I had wondered about that fine print in the GND!

Can anyone - Simon for instance? - explain to me what it is specifically Sanders wants out of Biden and the party? Not just 'move left', isn't there something specific and achievable?

the gop has no credibility to claim they'll pass even a racist new deal. they're dragging their feet to give working ppl a bone even now in the middle of a major catastrophe

Isn't the GOP currently advocating giving everyone $1000?

Can anyone - Simon for instance? - explain to me what it is specifically Sanders wants out of Biden and the party? Not just 'move left', isn't there something specific and achievable?

I don't know that anyone but Sanders can credibly answer that tbh. Everything is so up in the fuckin air right now.

so up in the fuckin air

Indeed.

it's going to be trump vs generic_dem_biden and biden will do very well bc he's not a woman and ppl seem to generally like him and they hate trump

republicans will attempt to paint biden as ultra-corrupt based on burisma as their surrogate for benghazi. this may help them hold onto their base, but I doubt it will make any dent outside that. most voters are going to have much more pressing and important concerns this year. like economic collapse, several hundred thousands of fatalities and a couple million cases of prolonged debility.

Granted, people don't hate Biden they way they hate Clinton but... remember Bengazi and her emails?

by the way, what was biden's stance on Austerity measures in the wake of the last recession? i guess his actual opinion might be hard to ascertain, since it would have aligned with the administration's, regardless. but it seems like a relevant question, since suddenly THE DEFICIT is set to become an incredibly topic as soon as a democratic president is elected. suddenly it will become a crisis that has to be addressed, unfortunately only "tightening the belt" and making some tough cuts to social security.

i worry more about that, re: biden, than anything else. the revival of the Grand Bargain bullshit, which can only happen when a democrat is president

A revival of Grand Bargain politics under Biden is a real possibility, especially in the third year of his term, after mid-term elections. Given how deep the shit is going to get before Trump can be booted out, this seems like a worry for another day.

i agree with that outcome. i'm just curious what running to the left of biden even means, practically speaking

Trump ordering the suspension of evictions and foreclosures when Obama failed to do the same in 2009 is a good example

Joe Biden will tweet less though so who is to say what's worse?

<3

Bernie Sanders when @mkraju asked his timeframe for a decision: "I'm dealing with a fucking global crisis."

"Right now I'm trying to do my best to make sure that we don't have an economic meltdown and that people don't die. Is that enough for you to keep me busy for today?"

— Eric Bradner (@ericbradner) March 18, 2020

all the pearl clutchers on Twitter about that, omg.

go Bernie.

i generally kind of expect that the worm will finally turn on trump once widespread infection is undeniable and hardship is going on weeks and months, but

some of the reality-denial in the conservative reaches of comment threads across internet-land seems positively psychotic, so

Trump ordering the suspension of evictions and foreclosures when Obama failed to do the same in 2009 is a good example

why do ppl post this innacurate ahistorical type of bullshit (beyond an effort to score ideological points on the internet)

Trump's order applies to HUD properties only ("only to homeowners with mortgages insured by the Federal Housing Administration, a HUD agency that backs affordable home loans issued through private firms"), not evictions and foreclosures generally. in 2009 I don't think HUD properties was where the majority of mortgage defaults were happening.