2020 Democratic presidential primary thread, pt 3: life is very long

Trump is going to attack Joe Biden from the left btw

that seems to be an increasingly cited idea this morning (the GOP running on joe biden from the left)

i think i understand what that means, but i'd like to hear someone else elaborate on it first

Wow finally an election where the choice is between two cancers

i think i understand what that means, but i'd like to hear someone else elaborate on it first

racistm + populism

worked last time

remember how Trump promised the best healthcare, pro-labor policies, tax cuts for the middle class etc.

also promised fewer brown people

the magic combo!

Gemini vs Scorpio iirc.

3xp

Alfred you're definitely the most levelheaded person in this thread but my remaining ways to engage w/ this dumb campaign are "moaning and grieving" and "resolutely ignoring" and while I always made fun of Morbs for quitting politics threads for, like, six hours at a time, it turns out posting is fun

― silby,

Loud shoutout to DJP tho

remember how Trump promised the best healthcare, pro-labor policies, tax cuts for the middle class etc.

but that was "running from the left"?

tax cuts, no. throwing that out right there.

best healthcare? i mean, yeah, he promised it in as in he literally just said over and over "you're gonna have the best healthcare. the best. i promise. we will. the best healthcare of all time", but that is not "running from the left". there are lots of ways to provide healthcare. our current system is...probably the worst, and emblematic of conservative policymaking. he didn't propose anything to change that system.

pro-labor: he may have made a few comments here and there during his 2016 campaign, but i don't remember labor being a significant issue for him, or his voters. i could be wrong, but that seems like the kind of thing he might talk about in late 2015 before bannon and friends reminded him to never be kind to labor unions ever again if he wanted the conservative vote

the way the attack on biden from the left will work is the trump campaign will attempt to destroy his image as a populist democrat, using biden's record. he claims to be a friend to the working class, but this is his record on bankruptcy, credit card debt, and cutting social security and medicare. he claims to support women, but he's actually pro-life and mistreated anita hill. he claims to support african-americans but: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-racial-jungle-quote/

it's not really about the specific quotes or policies, it's just about showing joe biden is a hypocrite

maybe if the recession is bad enough it won't matter, but I don't have a lot of faith in biden's ability to defend himself from the shitstorm that's coming his way.

xp -- also it should probably be pointed out that people's general levels of despair and anger are massively up right now, with good reason, and even if someone was an expert at compartmentalizing that all somehow, politics is not a separate compartment from it

but... Trump is an even bigger hypocrite, so how does that line of attack sway any voters who haven't already made up their minds, or (more critically) increase turnout?

xps

he claims to support african-americans but: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-racial-jungle-quote/

if you think Biden's african american support is going to crater idk what to tell you

of course not

xposts

i just think the whole "running at biden from the left" thing is a consequence of the primaries, where parts of the democratic party try to pain the other as unacceptable villains. the truth is, i think, even fucking mayor pete is to the left of where obama was in 2008. biden wasn't my first, second.....or eighth choice, and i wish he wasn't a million years old and not very good at being a politician, but he is not some sort of secret conservative manchurian candidate that is open to being outflanked from the left. the issues he's been especially bad on - regulating wall street, bankruptcy, anita hill, repeatedly making people feel physically uncomfortable in his presence - are not things that trump is well-suited to left flank him on

KM otm

the trump campaign will propagate quotes like that (which biden has in abundance...) in order to make independents view biden as a liar and de-inspire turnout among young voters

young ppl don't vote

I kinda wonder how the "anti-politician" rhetoric is gonna play this cycle now that Trump has been president for 4 years

i mean, on anita hill and supporting african-americans - people really believe that trump is gonna defeat biden on this?? donald trump?? vs all people, joe biden, who demonstrably has strong support from african-americans?

also lol @ thinking the biggest liar ever calling another guy a liar will be a foolproof strategy

xps

trump is just going to say "we have the lowest unemployment rate in history for african-americans" (fact check: no we don't any more, sadlol), and it's going to land with a resounding thud, like it has the last thousand times

xp -- the "young people don't vote" effect looks a lot starker when presented out of context (i.e. out of context with state/local demographics)

People will attack Biden’s record with black people so white leftists will have a reason to feel better about not voting for him, not because it will do anything to his level of African-American support.

he can still get out of the race and advocate for those policies, btw

Lol, the second Bernie drops and endorses him, Joe will throw his newfound progressive ideas away like a cumrag.

let's leave joe's cumrag out of this

yeah the hypocrite line won't work on anyone who's made up their minds about trump, which hopefully will be 51% of voters (and obv should be!). but there will be a massive ad campaign aimed at independent/swing voters and younger voters to show that biden is a big fat elitist liar. and unfortunately biden was treated with kid gloves all primary. the general public isn't aware how bad biden's record is, which is fertile territory for an attack.

yeah DJP OTM

Some of us should get degrees in grief counseling to handle today's moaning

you could always put that where your degree in Pazz & Jop history should be

someone upthread remarked that no one is going to be paying attention to bernie from here on, as a candidate, except for his own coalition. that's correct, i think.

he should drop out and serve as a leading voice in the senate. the ideas that is championing are needed right NOW, in response to a real crisis. he can be effective by helping put them into action. this is actually a huge progressive moment, i think (if we don't fuck it up)

didn't Sanders himself say words to that effect yesterday?

he should be doing what i always want pelosi to do - be the bridge to the next generation of progressive politicians. get together with a progressive crew of younger politicians, draft legislation, and pull the consensus of the party to the left. expand the safety net, etc. those kinds of idea will never have a more effective backdrop then RIGHT NOW.

white leftists don't swing elections (which, oddly, is something Berniebros always repeat when it comes to how many of them didn't vote for Hillary)

xps

I said "leftist" because white people in general don't give a shit about black people

otm

that seems to be an increasingly cited idea this morning (the GOP running on joe biden from the left)

i think i understand what that means, but i'd like to hear someone else elaborate on it first

i think a lot of you are overthinking this. it's going to be trump vs generic_dem_biden and biden will do very well bc he's not a woman and ppl seem to generally like him and they hate trump

i agree with that outcome. i'm just curious what running to the left of biden even means, practically speaking

i don't think it has a practical meaning - if GOP wants to start advocating for higher min wages, union protections, environmental regulations oh no oh no don't throw us into that briarpatch

unless you think people are going to come out of coronavirus (or in the midst of it) thinking better of trump and his leadership there's no reason to think he's about to become beloved. bad economy, devastating virus = bad news for trump imo.

yep

Running to the left = "here is another iteration of the New Deal, only fuck you if you aren't white and straight-passing" afaict

or in other words, doing what the US does in moments of crisis

so the New Deal then

xpost yes - I've long held that when things get Serious the US turns directly to socialism i.e. wars, recessions, major league baseball stadia

the gop has no credibility to claim they'll pass even a racist new deal. they're dragging their feet to give working ppl a bone even now in the middle of a major catastrophe

Running to the left = "here is another iteration of the New Deal, only fuck you if you aren't white and straight-passing" afaict

I had wondered about that fine print in the GND!

Can anyone - Simon for instance? - explain to me what it is specifically Sanders wants out of Biden and the party? Not just 'move left', isn't there something specific and achievable?

the gop has no credibility to claim they'll pass even a racist new deal. they're dragging their feet to give working ppl a bone even now in the middle of a major catastrophe

Isn't the GOP currently advocating giving everyone $1000?

Can anyone - Simon for instance? - explain to me what it is specifically Sanders wants out of Biden and the party? Not just 'move left', isn't there something specific and achievable?

I don't know that anyone but Sanders can credibly answer that tbh. Everything is so up in the fuckin air right now.

so up in the fuckin air

Indeed.