Rolling US Economy Into The Shitbin Thread

California is talking seriously about UBI rn

My county qualifies for economic disaster assistance ...

i think people should work if there is a need (not a manufactured need, most jobs are bullshit) or if they want to work. I am totally on board with UBI forever.

Honestly, in my "bernie bubble" I don't know how seriously they are talking about tbh. The need for people to assemble and socialize and experience arts and culture and entertainment is a real need, but is currently suspended, and that's what is devastating my social circle atm.

i see talk about it here too cuz romney brought it up (???). i wonder if it will actually happen. would be huge for me since i lost my job just before all this shit hit the fan.

Romney was not the first to propose it, House Dems had floated a $5k figure but no one cared about such a proposal until it garnered GOP support

cool thanks

and of course GOP supporters (Romney, Cotton) cut that figure to $1k

I suspect omar's tweet (which is on the other thread I guess?) about Pelosi objecting to it is bs seeing as how it wasn't reported/documented anywhere else and has some significant hedging language ("essentially shot it down" could mean a lot of things)

xps

just seems like a deliberately bad faith reading

ok it was $6k figure originally: https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/house-democrats-propose-sending-checks-of-up-to-6000-to-help-ease-workers-pain-curing-coronavirus-pandemic/

note that story makes no reference to Pelosi opposing it

i hope you're getting paid by the dnc for this shit

Yerac should be v upset about blue apron's stock rn

Are people going to really start using Blue Apron again because of the virus? Color me skeptical.

as long as they think they are until I sell out of it, it's fine.

i hope you're getting paid by the dnc for this shit

for reading things? yeah ok

how dare I accurately document legislative proceedings

I don't have any love for the DNC, but I know having nuanced views annoys the dogmatic

Who can afford nuance

all those fucking nuance resellers on amazon.

lol

Perhaps something that doesn't need to be discussed at the moment, but are any of you able to easily explain to me why you feel okay participating in the stock game? I am 100% asking as someone who irresponsibly knows very little about it and genuinely wants to know the answer. I feel like I'm missing something.

I hate money for money's sake, and only see it as a tool to convert into housing, food, beer, clothes, etc. If I have disposable income, I want to get rid of it. It's like subconsciously I don't even feel comfortable having it sitting in my account doing nothing.

I've always felt like buying shares in companies is essentially participating in capitalism and furthering the corporation's stranglehold on the way the world works. My wife is annoyed with me because she thinks because I am very successful at things like fantasy football while having comparatively very little knowledge of the NFL but am able to understand "game theory", the way the numbers work, able to make good predictions and find "market inefficiencies". I'm not sure it translates but she thinks it does. I am just so turned off by corporations that I want nothing to do with them besides enrolling in work 401Ks when they basically auto-enroll me, trying to save me from myself. Maybe the answer is you don't like the system but if that's the hand you're dealt, you're going to make the most of it?

I respect all of you and do not intend this to come across as passive aggressive or trolling. I am willfully ignorant of this stuff and have been following this thread because I'm worried about the economy.

I could probably write more later, something NUANCED, when I have time.

But you could also take part in ethical investing. There's a lot online about it. If you are kind of wavering on taking action somewhere.

Also, I grew up working class, daughter of military and an immigrant. I don't like any of the systems I've been dealt. But I can adapt while and still know myself.

you can do ethical investing with your mutual funds etc. too

nobody needs to play the game of buying and selling individual equities unless they're willing to basically just have fun at the casino, as Yerac has suggested

SA, are you in the US or another country? We have like... no retirement income options that aren't somehow based in the market. You could go full-on with bonds, but successfully growing your nest egg is pretty much pinned to a return that beats the interest rate.

A large percentage of the population has no retirement account and is going to be drawing Social Security, or if they're lucky, union benefits, but if you're able to save for retirement that's about it. And once you're in the system with your 401k, it's not really a moral or logical jump to accept investment in stocks.

whoops, missed the 401k part toward the end of your paragraph

since the super-rich are almost by definition not ethical, if all ethical ppl chose not to invest the distribution of wealth would tilt even further in favour of the super-rich

For me -- someone who is perpetually thinking of doing some of my own investing, but only have a 401k, and feel that the system is messed up -- the only real answer long-term is structural change. I think there should be more public (read: government) ownership of essential sectors, a lot more regulation on many others, and harsh penalties on companies and individuals.

I'm not going to begrudge anyone who uses the current system while not doing so in a particularly asshole-ish way.

I'm also guilty of not paying attention to my own holdings where I have the ability to vote, and I should be doing that.

I guess it's a larger question of what people end up doing with disposable income when they come across it. That's a preference based on lifestyle/goals and upbringing and their own sense of security, I guess.

Like, I've always generally saved more than half, if not more of all the money I've made in traditional jobs since I was in high school.

on the other hand, people who grew up with parents that made poor financial decisions who end up talking about "rich dad, poor dad" are an entire subgenre of people I'd like to avoid

I have friends that make poor financial decisions, just waiting for someone to die so they can get whole with an inheritance.

I'd have more savings but I ended up rolling money into making sure my century-old house will last another century, which I think is a little bit of a contribution to the common good. At least I kept some construction contractors in business.

I asked my father (de facto financial advisor) about ethical investing in vanguard and he said as your advisor I’d have to say don’t do it. Then I put a bunch of money in Swell, an ethical mutual fund startup. After 2 years I think I lost a hundred bucks and then they closed.

Yes I am pretty much in the same sitch as mh. As a father, societal norms make us (adult males) feel like we need to be proactive with money and invest. Trade stocks and stuff. If we have enough money, invest in property. Once you get to the point of buying property, it feels to me like you are just taking advantage of people that can't afford to buy property. The people with money keep getting more, the people without stay that way. The more like a corporation you become. I sound like I'm 16 and just became aware of "THE MAN"! Again, I really hope this doesn't come off as judgmental, but I see a lot of you in the political threads championing Warren and/or Sanders, and then talking in here about playing in the stock game. Makes me feel like maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way fundamentally.

I am US, military brat, have 401ks littered across many jobs and all of them are in ethical investment portfolios when those are an option. I also have 529s for my kids in ethical investment portfolios. But the ethical ones don't make as much... This is just something that pops up in my mind from time to time - "hmm maybe I should be more proactive about investing... but is it socially responsible?" Just this time I decided to ask some people. I appreciate all your answers!

Also I have never been good at saving money (because I hate having it), but good at staying within my means. That probably explains a lot of it. Yerac's talk of saving more than half... whew that feels like light years beyond my capabilities. I guess if things stay okay I will have to face what to do with more money than I can spend once my kids get older. Will seek advice on here in a decade or so.

I use/plan on using the money earned from investing in shitty corporations to subsidize my already fairly frugal lifestyle so that I can continue to provide low-cost professional services to low-income people and do volunteer work.

Maybe someday I will be able to afford to buy property that will be/become affordable housing and studio/performance space for artists and culture workers.

xpost and solar power companies...ugh such bad luck with those. I really think it takes a certain type of person to have the knowledge to run something ethical well without being entirely corruptible by the system and money.

I guess I was a bit lucky in that my partner and I were fairly aggressive in our 20s and purchased a house when we probably should not have purchased a house or been given a mortgage. But we both wanted to feel secure in having housing within a really competitive rental market. And we dealt with it and had a period of time being uncomfortable with finances and too many roommates and it eventually worked out well. And I don't get sentimental about things so I have no problems selling places or items or not buying items that I like. I like nice things but I don't need to own them. So my overhead has always been really really low (like rarely taking cabs, spending about $40 a week on groceries in NYC, taking lunch to work, never having cable). And doing that consistently really freed me up to do the things I really like to do.

And generally, not every company that is public and tradable is evil. At some point it was just some small business that became popular/profitable and they wanted to raise money to expand.

I also think women and poc should become more financially savvy not less, because it's the one of the biggest things that does give them more independence and protection within the system (kind of like what sarahell is saying).

I have an Ellevest account! I haven't checked to see how well it is doing vs. my personally managed Schwab portfolio

Also I have never been good at saving money (because I hate having it)

I know a lot of people who are like this. A lot of cis-men, actually. They tend to be the most conflicted and angry about it, as well, whereas people I know who aren't cis-men tend to be more pragmatic and willing to adapt out of necessity or in light of a "bigger picture" in terms of how they hope to live their lives, plus those of their families.

I just constantly think of women having to marry or not being able to leave a bad/abusive relationship because they don't have money or it was withheld from them.

More than half a paycheck into savings is really a lot and I know not something that is realistic for most people but that is just me and my own goals. I can want to live a comfortable life while also wanting the same for everyone else. I don't have kids but I think there should be free education. I worked at large banks and I am fine with seeing them get all broken up. It's voting against my interests.

I just constantly think of women having to marry or not being able to leave a bad/abusive relationship because they don't have money or it was withheld from them.

exactly!

SA you should post (more?) on other threads btw. It's fun and terrible.

y'all as a once-struggling homeowner in my early 30's who once had roommates and as a cishet guy who has had money issues I am really feeling these posts, thank u for articulating

Yerac
Posted: March 17, 2020 at 6:46:14 PM
I also think women and poc should become more financially savvy not less, because it's the one of the biggest things that does give them more independence and protection within the system (kind of like what sarahell is saying).

I think that a lot of women/poc *are* more savvy with money than cis het white dudes, out of necessity. Social nets aren’t so great, etc. And not only that, but there’s nothing like straitened circumstances to teach good financial discipline, and, demographically speaking, women/poc often find themselves in situations where a little money must go a very long way.

yes

yeah, my mom was a chinese restaurant waitress her entire life (except one brief stint shipping out guns and I have no clue what that was about) so she was always very on top of me saving money and never owing money to anyone (credit cards, mortgages etc.) she dealt with all the money in our house.

when I see "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" quoted, I kinda just smh because "Rich Dad" was, in fact, my mother.

Not really sure if this is relevant, but I'm a cis white het dude who grew up in a family that never had much money. I don't feel conflicted about owning stocks in general. Maybe there are certain companies that might make me a bit uneasy (like, I don't know, gun manufacturers or something), but not enough to keep me from buying a broad index. I think most corporations are, on average, not evil, but maybe that's an unpopular view.