ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

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It's a normal verb plus an infinitive: He (subject) used (verb) to smoke (infinitive).

It's only a special case in that it only has that meaning in the past.

Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 25 June 2009 11:11 (seventeen years ago)

It's just a verb pattern. It needs a complement, and the complement has to be an infinitive.

Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 25 June 2009 11:13 (seventeen years ago)

Or is it a semi-modal like "ought to"?

But is habituality the kind of idea that a modal verb expresses?

You have sown doubt where once there was certainty.

Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 25 June 2009 11:21 (seventeen years ago)

Isn't the idea with semi-modals that they can still be used to form questions and negatives without auxiliaries (the same as other modals)?
So we say You mustn't go instead of You don't must go and Can he swim? instead of Does he can swim?.
'Ought to' kind of conforms to this: you could say You oughtn't to go and Ought I to stay?(although these both sound very formal).
'Used to' doesn't conform to this: you'd say He didn't use to swear instead of He usedn't to swear and Did you use to have a beard? instead of Used you to have a beard?

Teh Movable Object (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 25 June 2009 11:46 (seventeen years ago)

bit of a digression here, but an entertaining one: a takedown of strunk & white. (and here's where i admit that despite dutifully keeping it on my shelves since college, i've barely ever cracked the elements of style. now i don't feel so bad about that.)

us_odd_bunny_lady (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 25 June 2009 13:20 (seventeen years ago)

If you had cracked it you would've given it a takedown yourself.

bamcquern, Thursday, 25 June 2009 16:04 (seventeen years ago)

the reason the elements of style is great is that it is beautifully written and engaging to read - no one thinks of it as a bible

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 June 2009 16:09 (seventeen years ago)

and i'd much rather read it that this guy's stilted, stuffy and self-satisfied takedown

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 June 2009 16:12 (seventeen years ago)

Exactly.

Garri$on Kilo (Hurting 2), Thursday, 25 June 2009 16:36 (seventeen years ago)

"pre-madonnas" beats "for all intensive purposes" as my new favorite

Beanbag the Gardener (WmC), Saturday, 27 June 2009 03:54 (seventeen years ago)

That's a personal favourite of mine - it appeared in my (otherwise quite good) student paper at Uni.

Not the real Village People, Saturday, 27 June 2009 10:20 (seventeen years ago)

it's a deep-seeded mistake

Tracer Hand, Saturday, 27 June 2009 11:10 (seventeen years ago)

Is this OK?

"The Morbius Institution is issuing a statement that President Obama is a failure."

Or should it be something like "a statement that claims that" (or "a statement claiming that")?

sad-ass Gen Y fantasist (jaymc), Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:22 (seventeen years ago)

Even "a statement to the effect that" sounds better than the original.

sad-ass Gen Y fantasist (jaymc), Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:28 (seventeen years ago)

why not

The Morbius Institution issued a statement that President Obama is a failure

Mr. Que, Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:29 (seventeen years ago)

something (conservative?) in me would definitely add the claiming/averring/opining verb

nabisco, Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:31 (seventeen years ago)

mostly because "statement" in that sentence refers to a formal statement -- I would be less bothered by talking generically about "the statement that X is true"

nabisco, Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:34 (seventeen years ago)

The verb tense wasn't confusing me, I don't think. It just seems like the construction "object + 'that' + _____" requires a full predicate. But I suspect that the word "that" is functioning in a different way here.

sad-ass Gen Y fantasist (jaymc), Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:37 (seventeen years ago)

Maybe "...a statement calling President Obama a failure." "Claiming that" implies a disputed factual claim that could be proven or refuted.

Garri$on Kilo (Hurting 2), Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:38 (seventeen years ago)

That's a good point, although I think the actual sentence I'm copyediting (which I disguised for the purposes of posting on a public message board) is more within the realm of a factual claim.

sad-ass Gen Y fantasist (jaymc), Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:42 (seventeen years ago)

the Morbius Institute isn't a real thing? ;_;

nabisco, Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:43 (seventeen years ago)

it's affiliated with the Coolio Society

Mr. Que, Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:43 (seventeen years ago)

but yeah they lost their funding

Mr. Que, Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:43 (seventeen years ago)

Unless it's pretty clearly a verifiable/refutable factual issue, I wouldn't use "claiming."

Garri$on Kilo (Hurting 2), Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:49 (seventeen years ago)

C'mon, it's the Morbius Institute, all their opinions are factual claims

nabisco, Thursday, 2 July 2009 17:50 (seventeen years ago)

'is issuing' sounds wrong because it implies something that takes a fair amount of time (eg. 'is playing tennis'), but to issue a statement takes seconds.

Madchen, Saturday, 4 July 2009 13:26 (sixteen years ago)

issued should be past tense

Garri$on Kilo (Hurting 2), Saturday, 4 July 2009 14:41 (sixteen years ago)

OK, guys, I made that part up, too -- don't worry about it.

sad-ass Gen Y fantasist (jaymc), Saturday, 4 July 2009 14:53 (sixteen years ago)

how would u go about salvaging

Print is the original media

thomp, Saturday, 4 July 2009 14:55 (sixteen years ago)

Original sentence: "At a meeting in Tr0ms0, N0rway, representat1ves 0f the U.S., Canada, Russ1a, Denmark, and N0rway issue a jo1nt statement that the greatest l0ng-term threat t0 the surv1val of p0lar bears is cl1mate change."

sad-ass Gen Y fantasist (jaymc), Saturday, 4 July 2009 14:57 (sixteen years ago)

Depends on the context, really.

Print is where the media began
The media was once all print

?

x-post

Alba, Saturday, 4 July 2009 14:59 (sixteen years ago)

For starters, you've got a bunch of 1's and 0's instead of i's and o's!

Garri$on Kilo (Hurting 2), Saturday, 4 July 2009 15:01 (sixteen years ago)

uh, print is the original news medium?

circles, Saturday, 4 July 2009 16:06 (sixteen years ago)

I think "statement that..." is fine in that context.

Garri$on Kilo (Hurting 2), Saturday, 4 July 2009 18:02 (sixteen years ago)

"...pertains to students who have completed high school and are 18 years and over as of July 1"
vs.
"...pertains to students who have completed high school and are 18 years or over as of July 1"

FYI, I went with "or"; this came back to me changed back to "and."

sad-ass Gen Y fantasist (jaymc), Monday, 6 July 2009 22:57 (sixteen years ago)

The Morbius Institution issued a statement that President Obama is a failure

Obv I'm no authority of what's correct or incorrect in English, but I really like the compactness of this, without the "claiming" etc; it reminds me of classic Greek or something. Maybe the lack of subjunctive (or heh optative) in indirect-speech types of things in English is what's making it dubious.

anatol_merklich, Thursday, 9 July 2009 04:35 (sixteen years ago)

"said" is better than "issued a statement"

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 9 July 2009 08:30 (sixteen years ago)

Line breaks! Are there some next-level rules about where a word gets hyphenated that I'm unaware of? From my editor:

With regard to Appreciative Inquiry, the word processed is hyphenated proc-essed in this usage. Naturally, the English language does use pro-cessed when talking about things like a funeral pro-cession.

??!!

kind-hearted, sensitive keytar player (Abbott), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:24 (sixteen years ago)

Any hard/fast rules on these things?

kind-hearted, sensitive keytar player (Abbott), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:25 (sixteen years ago)

i thought you were supposed to break the syllables. though you could argue about which sounds belong to which syllable.

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:27 (sixteen years ago)

on another subject, why is it "i'm fabulous aren't i?" when "are" does not agree with "i".

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:27 (sixteen years ago)

It should be "am I not?" Is that usually looked upon as being grammatically correct?

http://tinyurl.com/lrhdut (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:29 (sixteen years ago)

distri-bute, she says is wrong; distrib-ute is right

where the hell is she coming up with this stuff?

kind-hearted, sensitive keytar player (Abbott), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:30 (sixteen years ago)

I don't know of any hard and fast rules, but it seems like Webster's generally avoids having hyphens come after a short vowel. So in the example you cite, "funeral pro-cession" is OK because the O in "pro" is a long vowel, but "pro-cessed the claims" is not OK because the first syllable there sounds like "prah."

max readroom (jaymc), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:30 (sixteen years ago)

That sounds crazy, Abbs.

http://tinyurl.com/lrhdut (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:30 (sixteen years ago)

PP yeah but i guess my question is more why does "aren't i" even SOUND right? it shouldn't at all!!

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:31 (sixteen years ago)

However! My Webster's does break it as "pro-cess," presumably because no one actually pronounces "proc" as a single syllable. Like I said, there are no hard and fast rules. In the case of "distribute," however, Webster's does go with your editor, and I'm inclined to agree.

max readroom (jaymc), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:33 (sixteen years ago)

("Proc-ess" might also suggest that the C is to be pronounced as a hard C, so yeah, all around I think "pro-cess" is better.)

max readroom (jaymc), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:35 (sixteen years ago)

Ok good to know, I am just tired of re-hyphenating all these random words at her behest every week.

kind-hearted, sensitive keytar player (Abbott), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:38 (sixteen years ago)

FYI, I went with "or"; this came back to me changed back to "and."

That's why you should have gone with "at least"!

suddenly, everything was dark and smelly (HI DERE), Thursday, 16 July 2009 16:39 (sixteen years ago)


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