2020 Democratic presidential primary thread, pt 3: life is very long

yelling at voters and poking them in the chest

turns out voters love this shit tbh

i feel like we're all disappointed, but we could fight about it some more

What good is disappointment? Get cynical and be pleasantly surprised whenever something good happens

Whoever Joe Biden picks as his running mate, it's someone who must be prepared on Day One to give Donald Trump a medal pic.twitter.com/kHobxusovp

— Jon Schwarz (@schwarz) March 11, 2020

KM and frogbs otm. Christ, give young people a day or two to get used to the reality that the Democratic Party will never nominate a candidate who gives a shit about their future before lecturing them about how their anger is helping Trump.

you don't need a huge conspiracy to figure out why pete buttigieg decided that having a cabinet seat in the white house was prob gonna be more fun than being an unemployed south bend resident.

i'm not claiming it's a conspiracy, rather that it's exactly what you say - the Dems are more than willing to compromise their values (and the values of their voters) to further their own careers and support a centrist establishment that will never give anything more than lip service to actual progressive causes, which is particularly frustrating to see 4 years after the entire Republican party capitulated to an idiot game show host whose only political skill was pushing the racism button hard enough

What good is disappointment? Get cynical and be pleasantly surprised whenever something good happens

bleep! bloop!

boop! boop! 10101010111010110

the Dems are more than willing to compromise their values

the majority of the party doesn't share/have these values

grandma, i know you're dying. but everyone dies. and you don't know what's on the other side of death, so why worry about it? only worry about things you have control over.

friends of mine were not necessarily given the day or two to mourn by bernie supporters when warren dropped out but i understand everyone is v emotional

Don’t you kind of need non-cynical people to fight for those occasional surprisingly good things?

i feel like we're all disappointed, but we could fight about it some more

Not getting this feeling at all. I get the feeling certain posters are enjoying the failure of Sanders and being able to tell progressives they are stupid for believing he had a shot, although certain of these certain posters are the same certain posters who were absolutely 100% certain that Hilary was going to win in 2016 and expressing a near identical enjoyment at dunking on anyone who thought that the Dems weren’t going to roll Trump.

pbkr those are all pretty bad faith assumptions

the majority of the party doesn't share/have these values

Bernie's ideas are way more popular than Biden's (at least to the extent that Joe Biden has any ideas)

friends of mine were not necessarily given the day or two to mourn by bernie supporters

yeah Bernie Bros have infiltrated HR depts. nationwide

Like these political geniuses should have some motherfucking insight and self-awareness.

no one in this thread has self-awareness

xp not assumptions at all.

the majority of the party doesn't share/ hacks don't have these values

Like these political geniuses should have some motherfucking insight and self-awareness.

― Biden my time/Drinking her wine (PBKR), 11. marts 2020 19:17 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

They don't. In fact they're nothing but straw. Fuck them.

Bernie's ideas are way more popular than Biden's (at least to the extent that Joe Biden has any ideas)

As demonstrated by all these primary results! Oh, wait.

Once Bernie starts talking about his ideas this will all turn around

Biden's not winning the nomination because he has the best or most popular ideas

bernie vs biden is a pretty stark and obvious difference in personality, policy, ability, in so many areas - it seems impossible imo to say that ppl just didn't know what they wanted

like everyone I know who supports Biden over Bernie says absolutely nothing about policy, it's all "what matters is getting rid of Trump and people are going to get scared off by sOOOoooOoocialism!!"

which to be fair is a totally valid point

certain posters are enjoying the failure of Sanders and being able to tell progressives they are stupid for believing he had a shot

Since I believed Bernie had a shot, I guess I must be among the stupid ones getting told off by the smug ones. But since I believed Hillary would roll Trump, I guess I must be one of the smug ones who are enjoying Bernie's falling behind. Too confusing to sort out right now. I need more data.

Since the Goldwater campaign, Republicans have been driven by a passionate belief in a politics and a willingness to take risks. Their philosophy is appalling, but they’ve had the drive and energy. Dems are just sleepwalking, looking for a restoration of the status quo ante.

— Doug Henwood (@DougHenwood) March 11, 2020

Good afternoon!

What do y'all need me to say?

Dougie Henwood isn't wrong, but what he consistently misses: unlike the GOP, the Dem Party is a genuine coalition party. By contrast, the GOP is a white death cult with token Latinx and blacks.

when you have coalition parties -- a Dem party that actually has liberal and moderate branches unlike the modern GOP -- you get these fissures.

like everyone I know who supports Biden over Bernie says absolutely nothing about policy, it's all "what matters is getting rid of Trump and people are going to get scared off by sOOOoooOoocialism!!"

Sanders’s 2016 Mich success relied on voters who expected Clinton to win anyway.

Look at “electability.” Clinton beat Sanders 73-27 with “electability” voters. But just 11% of voters prioritized it.

Yesterday, 58% of voters prioritized “can beat Trump.” Biden won them, 62-30.

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) March 11, 2020

bernie vs biden is a pretty stark and obvious difference in personality, policy, ability, in so many areas - it seems impossible imo to say that ppl just didn't know what they wanted

60% of Mississippi Democrats support the abolishment of private insurance in favor of M4A, an idea Biden promises to veto. Biden won 81.1%. South Carolina pull quotes and polling indicated that voters agreed with Sanders more often but simply didn't trust any of it to happen.

People may know what Biden's policies are (may) but that doesn't mean that's what they're voting for.

so Biden is running for fissure king

Bernie's ideas are way more popular than Biden's (at least to the extent that Joe Biden has any ideas)

As demonstrated by all these primary results! Oh, wait.

The former point is demonstrably true, though. They just don't buy that Bernie can beat Trump to deliver those policies.

so Biden is running for fissure king

B+

The former point is demonstrably true, though. They just don't buy that Bernie can beat Trump to deliver those policies.

― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.),

this is quite otm. Polled individually the Sanders and Warren policies do quite well.

'Electability' winning opposition primaries is 0-2 this century so fingers crossed everyone.

Janelle Bouie, usually worth reading:

As governor, Northam has been unexpectedly controversial. And true to form, he hasn’t challenged the overall status quo of Virginia politics, where powerful business interests hold huge sway over lawmakers in Richmond. But the anti-Trump wave that put Northam into office also energized progressives, who seized the opportunity presented by a Democratic governor to advance their interests and build power ahead of the next election cycle. When that cycle came, in 2019, progressives spearheaded the charge that broke the Republican Party’s hold on the state Legislature. Years of careful, difficult work — of building relationships and investing in marginalized communities — paid off in a statewide sweep that put Democrats in the driver’s seat of Virginia politics.

Northam is still governor and most of the caucus is either moderate or conservative. But for the first time, progressives have a major say in policy, and they have used it to push an unabashedly liberal agenda through the Legislature, raising the minimum wage, legalizing collective bargaining for public employees and expanding the right to vote. Just last week, Virginia lawmakers — led by Lee Carter of Manassas, a member of Democratic Socialists of America — passed one of the nation’s lowest caps on the price of insulin.

Progressives may have wanted someone else for governor, but for the first time ever, they’ve been able to stake a claim on power in the state. You could dismiss this as half a loaf — especially in light of Northam’s opposition to far-reaching reform, like ending Virginia’s right-to-work law — but I think it’s more significant than that. These are the kinds of victories that can build on themselves. Progressives may not win the governorship in 2021 (Northam is term-limited) or 2025, but they are on the path to winning the reins for one of their own.

*Jamelle

it would be very helpful to know at what point it is permissible to feel despair, given that at all the other points one has this largely involuntary feeling/assessment, they were all “not the time”

xp lol I posted that upthread, and it was roundly scoffed at

it's never the time to criticize any Democrats either

despair is not productive

productivity is a capitalism fetish :)

this is a great time to despair tbh, WAY before the general

xp lol I posted that upthread, and it was roundly scoffed at

― jaymc,

roundly scoffing has come full circle

I posted that upthread, and it was roundly scoffed at

I didn't scoff at it, although I think the degree to which Biden can be pressured from the left once in office will be limited somewhat. He'll pass what Pelosi and Schumer agree on (which is already going to establish limits itself), he's not gonna veto any of that shit. So that means we'd be likely to get some lefty priorities, but not a Sanders-style war on the rich.

xps

lol mordy

xps

Public option has outpolled M4A every time I've looked, though?

The President and the governor of a state are barely comparable in independence or power.