2020 Democratic presidential primary thread, pt 3: life is very long

like if sanders had succeeded with a convention coup and won the nomination w/ 35% of the party supporting him, that to me seems a lot closer to people getting 'completely fucked over' than 'dude who fails at putting together a majority coalition doesn't win election'

iatee otm. losing an election isn't "getting completely fucked over", unless there's fraud

you're right! fucked over is a bad way to put it. what can i say, i'm stressed the fuck out!

the people voted! the people want an empty vessel as their candidate! it's gonna take some time for everyone to deal with it - ok, for ME to deal with it at least - before we're all kissing joe biden's ass because it's better than kissing trump's ass.

OK GUYS I USED BAD WORDS

fair enough KM

shall we sit shiva

And you're right km, and I'm sorry if I am stressing anyone out

might be helpful to be honest. :)

no worries fred, you're not stressing me out. THIS is stressing me out *gestures wildly at world beyond the window*

in other words, you're addressing a group of people that just got completely fucked over, again, being asked to "unify" with the moderates of the party, yet again, even though the moderates will never "unify" with the left. it makes sense that everyone would be apathetic about joe fucking biden. just give it a few weeks/months

I feel like most of these people are going to come around because at the end of the day as bad as Biden is he's obviously better than Trump & if we get another chud SC justice then we're completely fucked. but god damn it's frustrating that anyone remotely progressive in this country constantly has to compromise by voting for shitty moderates whose only merits are not being completely fucking evil

there was also that great "national conversation" we had about M4A

it's too expensive!
no it's not!
yes it is, it's more than obamacare even, and we're going bankrupt
that's not true, the average cost per person would go down, and it would cover every-
it will come out of our taxes! we'll all be paying for it whether we want it or not
*bernie loud voice* health care is a right now a privilege, the lancet study says that it will cost-
*amy loud voice* can i step in here and make up a story about someone i met on the campaign trail told me about-
*extremely loud biden voice* LISTEN I PASSED OBAMACARE SINGLEHANDEDLY

lol

trying to remember the last national conversation that was good, or the last national conversation that actually happened in real life

I WAS THE ONE WHO SAID BIG FUCKING DEAL

honestly why do you think it's fair to frame this as being 'completely fucked over'?

idk if it's "fair" to frame it this way but man, look at what happened between Nevada & Super Tuesday - wall-to-wall MSM panic about "socialism", a big story about how "Russia wants Bernie!", one TV anchor literally comparing it to Nazi Germany, a debate in which every question directed at Bernie was negatively loaded, two candidates dropping out and endorsing Biden the day before Super Tuesday (while the other progressive candidate sat on her hands), polling stations in college towns getting overloaded yet again, etc. etc....like I know he got less votes but it very clearly felt like there were a number of thumbs on the scale

idk if those were "thumbs" as much as they were just opposing forces, which are in play in every election

in 2016 HRC had ALL the endorsements, yet somehow 3 or 4 endorsements for Biden is this big game changer

new idea for 2024 election: how about a nominee under the age of 60 who doesn't suck ass

Hillary was so hated (for whatever reasons that probably include sexism among other things) that she almost lost to a fringe socialist politician like Sanders and did lose to Trump. Biden is a generic Dem who people do not hate nearly as much as they hate Hillary (or Trump) and therefore is doing much better against Bernie and hopefully will crush Trump. If you don’t believe policies matter much to most Americans and negative tribalism is the primary motivator this sort of explains everything no?

yup

idk if those were "thumbs" as much as they were just opposing forces, which are in play in every election

hush now, you're impeding the betrayal narrative

xp

in 2016 it was HRC v Sanders (and, uh, o'malley). the endorsements of klob and pete were much more important, given that they each held around 5 to 10% of the share of the voters up to the moment of their dropping out

"Probably" sexism?

a fringe socialist politician like Sanders

https://i.imgur.com/ICqhv50.jpg

i'm not sure if you can make out what's going on in that photo above: those are a bunch of people UNDER the age of 60 who are turning out for a politician.

frogbs otm, MSM + Big Bam + runnersup lockstep + Clintonistas + dirty reds

politics aint "fair" but id have a party if all involved got Corona'd

i'm on record as saying Biden is worse than HRC, which doesnt mean i'll be delighted when she's his stroke substitute nominee

He is the left most senator in the senate yes?

The last couple of dem primary seasons have felt like that thing where an employer humors dozens of applicants with interviews even though he's already made up his mind that his nephew Dwayne is going to be the new shift manager.

in other words, that is a politician who is leading the group of people who actually have to go out day-to-day in this shitty world and live and face multiple ongoing crises that should have been addressed 20 years ago, instead of sitting at home and yelling at their kids and their kid's kids about whatever that tok-clock thing is

Most Americans seem to approve of some of the things Sanders campaigns on - that’s something to build on. It doesn’t mean socialist dem candidate is a contender except against the most hated Dem politician of our lifetimes

a fringe socialist politician like Sanders

lol, polled as most popular pol in USA until this babbling friend of Thurmond & Eastland came along

I feel like HRC was a better candidate than Biden, for reasons that will become abundantly clear in the next 7 months

for sure

i actually think she'd have a better chance, right now, on march 11 2020, right now, if she entered the race

and holy shit is that painful to contemplate

idk if it's "fair" to frame it this way but man, look at what happened between Nevada & Super Tuesday - wall-to-wall MSM panic about "socialism", a big story about how "Russia wants Bernie!", one TV anchor literally comparing it to Nazi Germany, a debate in which every question directed at Bernie was negatively loaded, two candidates dropping out and endorsing Biden the day before Super Tuesday (while the other progressive candidate sat on her hands), polling stations in college towns getting overloaded yet again, etc. etc....like I know he got less votes but it very clearly felt like there were a number of thumbs on the scale

if the goal is to elect more people with sanders-esque politics, the goal should be to look at things he had the ability to do but didn't, things that he did that maybe weren't very popular and things about him as a person that made him a pretty bad candidate who was never gonna win a majority and was only gonna get in w/ a convention coup. the conspiratorial mindset is fun but it's not going to actually serve anyone looking to get more progressives elected. you don't need a huge conspiracy to figure out why pete buttigieg decided that having a cabinet seat in the white house was prob gonna be more fun than being an unemployed south bend resident.

in 2016 it was HRC v Sanders (and, uh, o'malley). the endorsements of klob and pete were much more important, given that they each held around 5 to 10% of the share of the voters up to the moment of their dropping out

Also, these endorsements were important because voters this year prize electability above all else. Because of the crowded field and the lack of clarity in the first few contests, lots of voters didn't have a clear picture of who could win, and so the endorsements functioned as a signal that *the party* thought that Biden could win.

it's not a conspiracy, it's how the boot stomps the face

HRC a better candidate in terms of things that don't matter to the electorate (coherency, acuity, etc.) = sure

a better candidate in terms of getting votes? Probably not, but remains to be seen.

xp

like I get what Mordy's saying, there ain't a single politician in this country who's had to deal with the sustained bullshit attacks that Hillary has, but on the other hand Biden is literally being hid from the public because his brains are falling out of his skull and when he does get out he inevitably winds up yelling at voters and poking them in the chest. and obviously the MSM is gonna be talking about Burisma nonstop.

So, no one should be disappointed that the Dems couldn’t nominate someone better than Biden? Got it.

yelling at voters and poking them in the chest

turns out voters love this shit tbh

i feel like we're all disappointed, but we could fight about it some more

What good is disappointment? Get cynical and be pleasantly surprised whenever something good happens

Whoever Joe Biden picks as his running mate, it's someone who must be prepared on Day One to give Donald Trump a medal pic.twitter.com/kHobxusovp

— Jon Schwarz (@schwarz) March 11, 2020

KM and frogbs otm. Christ, give young people a day or two to get used to the reality that the Democratic Party will never nominate a candidate who gives a shit about their future before lecturing them about how their anger is helping Trump.

you don't need a huge conspiracy to figure out why pete buttigieg decided that having a cabinet seat in the white house was prob gonna be more fun than being an unemployed south bend resident.

i'm not claiming it's a conspiracy, rather that it's exactly what you say - the Dems are more than willing to compromise their values (and the values of their voters) to further their own careers and support a centrist establishment that will never give anything more than lip service to actual progressive causes, which is particularly frustrating to see 4 years after the entire Republican party capitulated to an idiot game show host whose only political skill was pushing the racism button hard enough

What good is disappointment? Get cynical and be pleasantly surprised whenever something good happens

bleep! bloop!

boop! boop! 10101010111010110

the Dems are more than willing to compromise their values

the majority of the party doesn't share/have these values

grandma, i know you're dying. but everyone dies. and you don't know what's on the other side of death, so why worry about it? only worry about things you have control over.

friends of mine were not necessarily given the day or two to mourn by bernie supporters when warren dropped out but i understand everyone is v emotional