2020 Democratic presidential primary thread, pt 3: life is very long

the earlier the campaigns start, the earlier the cutoff point for criticizing the shitty democratic nominee

at this point anything that damages Biden helps Trump

There are ways to campaign that don't damage Biden, though, is the thing.

maybe I'm deluding myself but it sounds more like Sanders knows he's lost and he's hoping to use the debate to provoke Biden into taking leftist stances

For instance, Bernie is listing off questions he'll ask of Biden based on voters' stated policy preferences, and saying absolutely nothing negative. Seems like a reasonable approach to me! xp

he's not capable of stringing together a paragraph that makes a coherent argument of why trump is a living nightmare, but he's our guy! that's the reality (no irony there)

tbf, i think it's actually pretty hard, more difficult than it would seem, to make a concise argument on why trump is a living nightmare. you see that here on ilx and other places, sometimes, with the "is trump REALLY that bad tho? btw i'm white or pass as white!!" argument. but it would be great to have a nominee with at least a fighting chance of being able to articulate the argument against trump. instead we're gonna have biden getting a bit confused and THEN RAISING THE VOICE TO THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS, LOOKIT HIS RECORD, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE DOES NOW WHEN HE CAN'T PIECE THINGS TOGETHER, HE JUST SPEAKS AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS AND STARES AT PEOPLE UNTIL THE 90 SECONDS ARE OVER

I agree. The speech was pretty good. He wasn't defiant or shouty; he didn't call Biden an asshole; he just said they're gonna debate and he was gonna try to drag Biden to the left. I can support that.

everytime Biden opens his mouth damages Biden

if the situation was reversed, none of the talking heads would suggest Biden quit; none.

at this point, though, is there anyone who is not either already convinced either that trump is a living nightmare, or that he is making america great again

he's hoping to use the debate to provoke Biden into taking leftist stances

he's not a fantasist

maybe I'm deluding myself but it sounds more like Sanders knows he's lost and he's hoping to use the debate to provoke Biden into taking leftist stances

this is smart and good and I hope so

posters that can read words might note that I didn't say Bernie needs to drop out now, it doesn't really matter imo. Trying to damage Biden, though, is counterproductive.

Is there a candidate who could have been worse for Democratic moderates than Hillary Clinton in 2016? Not only losing to Trump, but underperforming against a progressive in the primary so dramatically it meaningfully shifts discourse to the left.

— Osita Nwanevu (@OsitaNwanevu) March 11, 2020

at this point anything that damages Biden helps Trump

Delegate count is roughly 800-660, the two candidates have radically different agendas and philosophies, but one of them should stop campainging to "protect" the other, eight months before the general election

bernie has next to no chance, delegate-wise. sorry

i'm very sympathetic to the cause and wish that wasn't the case

Burisma will land, because it’s obvious corruption. Doesn’t matter that Trump/the GOP are hypocrites, those rules never apply.

xpost shakey I hit submit b4 reading your clarifier, but this idea that Biden is going to be "hurt" anymore than Trump was by a whole field of R candidates calling for his hed is :-/

I love this ilx tactic of inaccurately paraphrasing other posters' posts, always good to see

xps

Burisma will land, because it’s obvious corruption.

lol there it is

carrying water for the enemy

bernie has next to no chance, delegate-wise. sorry

In his speech, he acknowledged the delegate shortfall while stressing that the campaign's policies remain very popular. The focus is clearly shifting away from Sanders himself to keeping as many of them as possible in the conversation.

km Biden was also dead three days before SC, literally anything can happen

It would be ridiculous for Sanders to drop out before the one-on-one debate. It's basically like getting 45-60 minutes to press his issues to a large audience.

i'd link to a 538 explainer on the delegate situation, but they're canceled because nate silver said there was a 71.4% chance that hilary clinton would win the election, and the 3 in 10 outcome happened instead. t

No chance in hell a corrupt son will land, lol

Watched Sanders as closely as I could in a grade 3 classroom...I was actually in my ex-principal's office this morning saying something like this: "I don't know if candidates ever do this, but if I were Sanders I'd phone up Biden and say 'I will be debating this Sunday, and I'm going to pin you down on this and this and this--have your answers ready.' And really, that's exactly what he just did--good job. I don't think combing over the past is very productive inter-party at this point, but Sanders can still exert a huge influence the rest of the way.

Every child of a politician should be isolated on a comfortable island for the duration of the parent’s time in office.

this idea that Biden is going to be "hurt"

it depends what tack Bernie takes - there's clearly Bernie supporters here that already refuse to vote for Biden, but Biden needs as many Berniebro votes as he can get. That's where the potential for damage is.

xps

Why would moderates want Bernie to drop out now? They’re going to need an excuse when Joe steps on every rake on the ground between now and November.

and I'm sure Bernie is very cognizant of that, he's not as stupid as some of his supporters.

xps

Precious Biden. Let’s put him in hypersleep while the rest of us make the journey.

Bernie is done, there's just no chance if he can't even win Michigan. Trying to move the policy left is a good move, but him staying in, and getting humiliated in Florida for instance, might very well hurt not help that. Curious to see what policy Bernie wants Biden to move on. No way in hell Biden agrees to M4A, for instance, he knows a public option polls better.

there's clearly Bernie supporters here that already refuse to vote for Biden, but Biden needs as many Berniebro votes as he can get

keep in mind that bernie hasn't even dropped out yet and that 2 weeks ago it looked like he was going to win the nomination. give everybody some time to adjust to the idea of having to tell everyone to vote for the (other) really loud old guy. when it comes down to it, the bernie supporters who say they won't vote for biden will end up doing it in november, if they live in a state where their vote for president makes a difference. and if they live in states where their presidential vote doesn't matter, i hope they'll learn the lessons of the last 100x elections and stfu with the constant complaining about the democratic candidate, knowing that it has an effect on turnout for the downballot votes, where their votes actually DO make a difference

in other words, you're addressing a group of people that just got completely fucked over, again, being asked to "unify" with the moderates of the party, yet again, even though the moderates will never "unify" with the left. it makes sense that everyone would be apathetic about joe fucking biden. just give it a few weeks/months

if we lived in a normal country the primaries wouldn't start til june

starting to get serious deja vu of April/May 2016, when center-right people opposed to Sanders and his campaign were peppering the Internet (and some of these threads) with concern-troll arguments for why him staying in the race was ultimately bad for progressivism and how --- hot take! --- it would, really, be better for his cause if half the country's democratic electorate were denied the chance to vote for him, go to his rallies, build organizational and personal ties with other progressives through campaigning, etc.

i hope they'll learn the lessons of the last 100x elections and stfu with the constant complaining about the democratic candidate,

the audacity of hope

carrying water for the enemy

are all tv chefs totally obnoxious twats?

x-posts: Hot take: It would have

Like HRC said in 2008, "as we all remember, Robert Kennedy's brains leaked out of his ears long before he was 77"

in other words, you're addressing a group of people that just got completely fucked over, again, being asked to "unify" with the moderates of the party, yet again, even though the moderates will never "unify" with the left. it makes sense that everyone would be apathetic about joe fucking biden. just give it a few weeks/months

honestly why do you think it's fair to frame this as being 'completely fucked over'?

because it was our right to have our candidate win against a divided field of moderates

like if sanders had succeeded with a convention coup and won the nomination w/ 35% of the party supporting him, that to me seems a lot closer to people getting 'completely fucked over' than 'dude who fails at putting together a majority coalition doesn't win election'

iatee otm. losing an election isn't "getting completely fucked over", unless there's fraud

you're right! fucked over is a bad way to put it. what can i say, i'm stressed the fuck out!

the people voted! the people want an empty vessel as their candidate! it's gonna take some time for everyone to deal with it - ok, for ME to deal with it at least - before we're all kissing joe biden's ass because it's better than kissing trump's ass.

OK GUYS I USED BAD WORDS

fair enough KM

shall we sit shiva

And you're right km, and I'm sorry if I am stressing anyone out

might be helpful to be honest. :)

no worries fred, you're not stressing me out. THIS is stressing me out *gestures wildly at world beyond the window*

in other words, you're addressing a group of people that just got completely fucked over, again, being asked to "unify" with the moderates of the party, yet again, even though the moderates will never "unify" with the left. it makes sense that everyone would be apathetic about joe fucking biden. just give it a few weeks/months

I feel like most of these people are going to come around because at the end of the day as bad as Biden is he's obviously better than Trump & if we get another chud SC justice then we're completely fucked. but god damn it's frustrating that anyone remotely progressive in this country constantly has to compromise by voting for shitty moderates whose only merits are not being completely fucking evil

there was also that great "national conversation" we had about M4A

it's too expensive!
no it's not!
yes it is, it's more than obamacare even, and we're going bankrupt
that's not true, the average cost per person would go down, and it would cover every-
it will come out of our taxes! we'll all be paying for it whether we want it or not
*bernie loud voice* health care is a right now a privilege, the lancet study says that it will cost-
*amy loud voice* can i step in here and make up a story about someone i met on the campaign trail told me about-
*extremely loud biden voice* LISTEN I PASSED OBAMACARE SINGLEHANDEDLY