2020 Democratic presidential primary thread, pt 3: life is very long

tbf by Biden standards this is perfectly lucid

Sadly otm.

trump was more lucid than current biden when he ran for the presidency in 2016

― COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), T

Oh? From the same Klein piece:

Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, okay, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, okay, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right — who would have thought?), but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.

If you think Trump has declined mentally that’s probably because of how your media bubble is filtering Trump stories (same w Biden)

well I just remember Trump actually landing blows on Clinton in the debates, Biden is just a disaster

Clinton "won" every debate. It just didn't matter.

Trump's stuff written down often made no sense and much hay was made of that, but in real time you got what he meant most of the time.

it's kind of hard to compare the two since lying and getting facts wrong is Trump's "style", it's hard to count these things as "gaffes" when the man is just a liar who will say whatever he has to say to make himself look better

Clinton "won" every debate. It just didn't matter.

I keep reminding ppl of this and they seem to keep forgetting.

Trump's stuff written down often made no sense and much hay was made of that, but in real time you got what he meant most of the time.

it's because of all the hand gestures and the way he varies the space between his hands, measuring the problem and approximating the size of it for the audience

she also "won" the election. it just didn't matter.

tbf by Biden standards this is perfectly lucid

idk i understood it

I think we can all agree that there's literally nothing that sounds lucid to the ears of raging #2A supporters so this is all just splitting hairs.

otm xpost

Clinton "won" the debates if we're thinking objectively but the actual audience of the debates frequently applauded trump's points loudly, his supporters thought he won

I strongly suspect any regular posters itt could "win" a debate with Trump tbh

Agreed, they're pretty different in how they manifest. You can see through Trumps stuff sure, but there weren't really any gaffes in that way.

But maybe in some sense the same is weirdly beginning to be true of Biden. We were told 6 months ago that he was struggling mentally, but now he's the nominee we're told thats no longer the case, and that has an effect. Through filtered media we don't hear the sounds we hear what we're told are the sounds. No one is immune to that

I strongly suspect any regular posters itt could "win" a debate with Trump tbh

My dad is very like Trump (psychologically, not politically). "winning" a debate with him would be absolutely impossible

How long before Biden brings up his stuttering struggles to try to paint the concerned as doing unwoke ableism

you're a month late
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/politics/joe-biden-stutter/index.html

anvil, has anyone tried telling your dad they were "going to go outside with your ass"? Big Joe Style

me watching election results tomorrow pic.twitter.com/BShbLjN75f

— Peter Labuza (@labuzamovies) March 10, 2020

if only biden was as badass as palpatine

Clinton "won" the debates if we're thinking objectively but the actual audience of the debates frequently applauded trump's points loudly, his supporters thought he won

the crowd response certainly played how it was perceived, whether viewers were aware of the effect or not. that's why i thought it was buuuuuuuullshit that the first primary debate with bloomberg was filled with people who purchased VIP tickets; friends of the campaigns, cheering and booing the different candidates that they're financially backing. that is debate malpractice. who knows how the crowds were selected for the debates back in 2016, but i'm sure that in the battle between media outlets concerned about ratings and people concerned about "fair" perceptions of debates, the the media outlets won

the crowd response certainly "affected" how it was perceived

my typos are fucking bonkers these days, like intrusions from completely different thoughts. i am becoming reptile man

she also "won" the election. it just didn't matter

Ok I was as pro-Hillz as anyone here (probably more). But the "she won the popular vote" thing is starting to get played out.

Both candidates knew the rules going in; neither campaign thought it was a winner-take-all popular vote contest; both understood the concept of the electoral college.

If it were a popular-vote contest, both would have concentrated their efforts in California and New York (where actual people live). It wasn't. Trump's campaign simply gamed the system better than Clinton's. I kinda think Democrats would do well to focus on that - and get better at gaming electoral math - rather than repeating "bUt ShE WoN by ThrEe mIlliOn vOtEs" until the end of time

Sorry

Rant over

sure, i get all that. but how many more times have you heard 2016 post-mortems that make it sound like clinton got absolutely crushed? her winning the popular vote doesn't change the outcome, but it's still a relevant point that more people voted for her

it's worth regularly pointing out that the electoral college is bullshit and should be abolished, in case anyone is ever in a position to abolish it

Already lying about his record re: Iraq

Also claimed that he was arrested in Soweto for trying to see Mandela in prison.


"Guess what? You're not allowed to own any weapon. I'm not taking your gun away at all."

With emphasis added, it makes perfect sense (which I say as someone who wishes all guns were indeed taken away)

how does an italic that doesn't change the meaning of the first sentence at all make the following sentence not contradict the first one?

he means you can't own any type of weapon

just like free speech doesn't mean you can say any thing.

motivated reading making things hard.

bernie canceled by coronavirus

ROMULUS, Mich. — In the first major cancellation of the presidential campaign because of concerns about the coronavirus, Senator Bernie Sanders called off his planned primary night rally, his campaign said Tuesday.

“Out of concern for public health and safety, we are canceling tonight’s rally in Cleveland,” said Mike Casca, a campaign spokesman. “We are heeding the public warnings from Ohio state officials, who have communicated concern about holding large, indoor events during the coronavirus outbreak. Senator Sanders would like to express his regret to the thousands of Ohioans who had planned to attend the event tonight.”

Mr. Casca added: “All future Bernie 2020 events will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.”

Eeek

2016 vs. 2020: Share of Dem primary/caucus electorate under 30

IA 18% ('16) => 24% ('20)
NH 19% => 13%
NV 18% => 17%
SC 15% => 11%
AL 14% => 10%
MA 19% => 16%
NC 18% => 14%
TN 15% => 11%
TX 20% => 15%
VA 16% => 13%
VT 15% => 11%

— Steve Kornacki (@SteveKornacki) March 10, 2020

all generations fucking blow chunks

But but but Bernie will motivate the youth vote and that will save us

although, i guess that's just percentages. maybe just as many young people showed up but old people afraid of socialist takeovers really increased their turnout? but given that old people afraid of change show up for EVERY election, i'm gonna blame it on the youngsters

The key constituency is the black vote: earn it and you're almost set; if you don't, fuck it. He had the youth and older progressives in 2016 and lost; he has them now and will still lose. Why? The black vote. You need the three, which Obama had in 2008 and to a lesser extent in 2012.

the olds are showin up in Biden-powered scooters

focusing on "under 30" could distort this picture a bit imo and deserves a little more consideration. we millennials ain't kids no more. also people who voted for bernie as 26 year olds probably turned out to vote for him again as 30 year olds but would escape this metric. mocking the straw-man idea that "the youth vote was supposed to save bernie, ha ha ha" is no more enlightening now than the first eight hundred times it's been posted on this board.

He absolutely did bring out the youth vote; the raw data shows it. It's that the old people -- black and white -- weren't convinced and showed up in greater numbers for Biden.

going off on casino's point, millenials are an actual population bump so the percentage of america that's 18-30 is probably smaller than it was 4 years ago. even if 20 somethings turned out at the same rate as they did 4 years ago, they'd make less of an impact on the total.

what do you think he could have done to bring out the youths

like I'm genuinely curious because every damn election it seems like the 18-35 demo always overwhelmingly favors the best candidate but they don't vote in the same numbers as geriatrics

also they're less likely to be able to take time off to vote

just like free speech doesn't mean you can say any thing

ohhh right. tbf he should have said "you can't own just any old dang type'n thing sorta weapon you like" instead of a sentence that both means the thing he meant and the opposite of the thing he meant, if he was angling for an official Clear And Coherent rating from the (sic) Institute Of Malarkey

I find it weird how people talk about the turnout numbers so much and the actual demographic compositions so infrequently. the youth vote wasn't ever gonna get sanders elected cause there cause there aren't enough young people. there are a lot of old people. 'good with 20 somethings' + 'bad with 40 to 100 year olds' isn't a great trade-off, even ignoring the fact that old people sure love to vote.

that is otm

old ppl not wanting stuff to change shockah

it's because of all the hand gestures and the way he varies the space between his hands, measuring the problem and approximating the size of it for the audience

I can't tell how big a part of the shipping industry cruises are!

President Trump: "It will go away.  Just stay calm.  It will go away." pic.twitter.com/J8aF2Zb8v0

— The Hill (@thehill) March 10, 2020

It's gonna be a bitch when the olds decide another election for us and then immediately drop dead from the cov.

Turds in the presser keep focusing on the cruise ship in CA like that is particularly fore in mind, and not, like, all the other shit going on.

A couple of hundred possibly-infected people being released into genpop after the President literally tried to hide them for weeks probably should be fore in mind, amongst other shit

THE CONSUMER IS READY

A couple of hundred possibly-infected people being released into genpop

this is not what is happening, do keep up