Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

what the hell does this mean?

That South Florida is not the rest of the country, demographically speaking.

That's a different answer at least than your first response.

milo, I've repeatedly written that Sanders has or had the vote of young Hispanic voters here.

I didn't say anything about young Hispanic voters or Sanders. You're "explaining to POC in this county" - a county that is not representative and shouldn't be read as indicative of anything deeper.

I mean, this fire sale of a thread exists:

Fidel Castro RIP

I didn't say anything about young Hispanic voters or Sanders. You're "explaining to POC in this county" - a county that is not representative and shouldn't be read as indicative of anything deeper.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z),

uh you realize there are native born black Americans in MDC and Broward who have the same impressions of Sanders, right? Miami-Dade County isn't all Latin Americans.

uh you realize there are native born black Americans in MDC and Broward who have the same impressions of Sanders, right? Miami-Dade County isn't all Latin Americans.

No, it's not, but the demographics (and overall environment built by those demographics) are still very, very different from the rest of the country.

A tactical problem (I think) with what seems to be the main Sanders attack against Biden — his actual record — is that most people already have a fairly set notion of "Joe Biden" in their heads. He's pretty well defined. As kind of a doofus, granted, but he's a known quantity. If people already don't like him, then attacking his record reaffirms that dislike, which is fine but probably doesn't change many votes. If they already like him, or are at least fine with him, and think of him as kind of harmless dude, dragging out 40 years' worth of votes and Anita Hill shaming and everything else he's done may have limited impact. People either know that and have written it off, or they don't know it and it sounds like homework, and either way it may not change much how they see him.

Which of course gets to the whole idea of him being a "safe" candidate — it's not just his centrist positions that give him that appearance, it's that no matter how much Sanders or Trump beats on him, he will have something of a shield in that he's already defined for people.

You obviously weren't talking about native born black Americans though, given "POC in this county who've fled totalitarian systems."

That's true, those of us still here haven't fled yet

The "totalitarian system" under which they lived was the United States of America through the 1960s and only partially mitigated.

lol Alfred, jinx

;)

also i think while a lot of ppl look askance at Biden there are others who might believe that he has become a better person, either bc they think it's via a deep internal sea change or just a calculated maneuver, or maybe just eight years of chilling with Obama.

i think it's fair to go at him about certain things while accepting that maybe he has changed, especially when it comes time for the GE, if he does wind up being the nominee: maybe he's still going to be a fence-sitting, across-the-aisle, bipartisan-but-too-republican idiot, but there's a chance he wouldn't be, and what's the alternative if that winds up being the matchup?

Every place in this country is very different from every place in this country. That's why people campaign.

Country’s too big and something really needs to be done about it

I mean, if you can convince yourself that "there's a chance" it's probably good for your mental health but there's zero evidence to support that a man changed all of his views (some of which he's repeating on a daily basis about working with Republicans) that he's held for 50 years.

If I've been vehement about posting in the last few days, blame my googly-eyed shock that the Sanders campaign in toto did little to improve its vote totals since 2016. I believed the improvements in youth turnout, the reaching out to small communities of color in these Southern states. I thought the Hispanic votes in Nevada augured still greater totals. And I can see the flailing when after five years of excoriating THE DNC WHOA NELLY as symbol of all things nefarious in transactional politics the campaign releases an ad with Sanders and Obama -- and now my Sanders pals are saying, "Well, Alfred, that's politics"!

He remains my #2, but, goddamn, I've felt like a chump defending him for a year.

I didn't realize Bernie Sanders was in Toto.

my mental health is fine of course, I remain extremely grounded and logical about these things. In a world where Bernie (my preference) isn't the nominee and Biden is, why wouldn't i immediately vote for Biden? There is zero chance he's not better than Trump, especially for the people in communities for whom daily microaggressions IRL and active bigotry have found a "safe space" during the past several years. I mean, more of a safe space than America already was. Biden is far from ideal, and it's fairly exhausting to have him out there again instead of a fresh voice.

I now want Sanders to do a dramatic reading of the lyrics to "Rosanna"

and now my Sanders pals are saying, "Well, Alfred, that's politics"!

The thing you've outlined all the ways you wanted him to do?

He's currently doing better than in 2016, despite the larger field... some might suggest it's like there's nothing the Sanders campaign could have done to actually make you pleased with them.

xp

He'll meet you all the way.

"people are saying...."

I'll be over him.

He will enact M4A as sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti.

Similieing a mountain to another mountain eh

Are you new to this cutting edge 1982 chartburner?

Oh is that about that meme song, I’ve never really paid attention to it

xpost you misspelled 'turdburger."

I don't even own a Toto

lol meme song

cutting edge 1982 rum tum tugger

Funny, I don't feeeel Toto ...

I jammed to Toto in the back of my parents' Nova when that shit was friggity fresh

- years of Senate experience cultivating relationships with both Democrats and Republicans

ok lol

If you wanted to argue that black voters only turnout in 2016 numbers, which hurt Clinton - how are the Latinx and Asian voters that Bernie is winning going to turn out for non-Bernie in November? It's been a recurring evasion by some to pretend that voters of color only means black voters. That's not true in 2020 (nor has it ever been true) - and those are two groups of people of color with more room for growth in Democratic voter share.

My in-laws and my own family, who are Latinx and Asian, are pretty softly anti-Bernie. And, more importantly, they are very pro-Joe. The Obama years were prosperous for them in terms of personal wealth and educational attainment (as is the case for many POC). For this reason they’re inclined to more of the same - even if the candidate they associate with this era is imperfect and a little doddering. In their eyes, Joe has demonstrated an ability to listen to, and respond to, (non-white, non-male) deprioritized voices in government... His alliance with Obama, his advocacy for Hillary, his folksy charm, his Amtrak ridership, his dead kid, all of these indicate a humility and openness to change that is appealing to them. They experience Bernie as ideologically “set” and uncompromising, with a tendency to mansplain and whitesplain and an agenda that doesn’t adapt well to challenge. That some his supporters can at times demonstrate the same rigidity is evidence for them that he is not a candidate who will see/hear them.

I am not persuaded by Harriot's assertion that ppl's support of Joe is unconnected to the O years. absence of evidence etc

if Biden were to propose $500 billion for Amtrak and otherwise not change his platform I'd be forced to reconsider my opposition tbh xp

Oh, that would be such a cool wedge issue.

Asked straight out, can Joe Biden beat Donald Trump, Sanders said, simply: “Yes, he can.”

Yeah, I think he's done.

No such thing as halfway crooks anti-establishment firebrands.

I wonder who all these asian americans are that aren't highly suspicious of surveys/polling.

silby, I think you may have stumbled on something.

- years of Senate experience cultivating relationships with both Democrats and Republicans

ok lol

You can lol if you want to but this matters to a non-negligible number of people. These are the people Sanders needs to sell himself to. I think, instead, he is making the same mistake Warren made and is selling his policy ideas.

like the country badly needs M4A and Biden is a motherfucker for snickering at the idea but it needs a colossal investment in passenger rail infrastructure at all scales too, if Biden wants trans millennials to support him he really needs to start talking about trains because they all love trains almost as much as health insurance

it's true the youth fuckin love trains

He would get the vote of my six-year-olds in a hearbeat

AMABtrak

Bernie can't say anything other than "yeah, he can."

You can lol if you want to but this matters to a non-negligible number of people.

It is unfortunately correct that a large number of people care about being Dems being professional and friendly with the power paedos.

Unless he decides to resign from the Senate immediately if he doesn't lock up the nomination.