Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

Every time anyone talks about Bernie as an “old white man” I’m going to remember that nazis went to his rally and hung a swastika

— Gita Jackson, Mrs. Dr. Caspar Darling (@xoxogossipgita) March 6, 2020

I think the problem that I keep having with my more moderate “but the norms! civility! cheeeto!” friends is that they just don’t appreciate how the Democratic establishment has been infiltrated and taken over by moderate conservatives over our lifetime. Not in any conspiratorial way (per se), but it’s simply what’s going to happen when your focus become corporate and billionaire donors in the neolib era.

As mentioned upthread, the best tactic would be to invoke the OG New Deal.

If anyone thinks Biden will be as bad as Trump, because Obama, they are welcome to that opinion.

Kindly point out where anyone said this thx

If anyone thinks Biden will be as bad as Trump, because Obama, they are welcome to that opinion.

Elizabeth Warren urged by National Organization for Women not to endorse Bernie Sanders, told he has "done next to nothing for women" https://t.co/1jeCk8xQtA

— Newsweek (@Newsweek) March 6, 2020

still inclined to think she won't endorse anyone (which in practice would be functionally identical to a Biden endorsement imho)

Why would not endorsing anybody be equivalent to endorsing Biden?

I've found Sanders' supporters insufferable this time (and last), and was all-in on Warren, but since she's no longer an option, I just sent my absentee ballot for Sanders. I'm sorry that he's the best option we have at the moment.

Getting one last vote in?

This is sobering, the whole thread:

I've talked to TOO MANY black Southern voters this week (and during my life) I wanna stop and explain the concept of "the establishment" to some people and why a lot of black Southern voters will NEVER vote for Bernie.

— michaelharriot (@michaelharriot) March 6, 2020

Why would not endorsing anybody be equivalent to endorsing Biden?

Agree completely with Simon. When you're philosophically much, much closer to the one candidate than the other and don't endorse, there are a whole bunch of conclusions implicit in that, almost all of them not good for the candidate who's close to you.

No I totally agree that the linked articles, especially the one from the Migration Policy Institute, were very useful and convinced me that "the Obama-Biden administration took steps to prioritize enforcement resources on removing threats to national security and public safety, not families" is only sort of accurate -- it sounds like the main priority was the same as always, locating people who just crossed very recently and taking them back (fewer in number than under previous administrations but also under circumstances where a lot fewer people were arriving in the first place) -- but that among people who had established themselves in the United States (e.g. who had families here) the overwhelming majority were people who had committed serious crimes, by contrast with the present admin who does it because they know it looks good to their base. So yes -- it does seem like a Sanders administration compared to a Biden administration might do substantially less immediate removal/return of people who are migrating to the United States now, while both would drastically curtail the Trump-era practice of deporting established residents who aren't felons. I withdraw my objection to that line of the chart!

xpost with self, it’s tough though, because I honestly do think a healthy majority of boomers just really dngaf, even libs. many benefited from post-Depression “socialism”, even if just second hand, and have calculated that it’s not at all in their interest to extend those benefits to the people who come after them.

Being a white Southerner, my go to explanation is just straight up post-CR racism, but there’s been a constant, incredibly well-funded, often times “non-partisan”(foh) propaganda machine that has provided them effective pithy, ‘just good horse sense’ talking points of why they’re morally bound to fuck over everyone and everything on their way out.

Why would not endorsing anybody be equivalent to endorsing Biden?

At this point the things you do help one candidate or the other. Biden gains v little from a Warren endorsement as he has endorsements up the wazoo already from people with more backers than Warren, whereas Bernie would benefit a fair bit as he lacks endorsements and her people are hypothetically reachable at least on policy grounds. Also, his platform conspicuously aligns with her stated political goals very neatly, to the extent that many tried to market her as politically "identical" (or close to it), so a non-endorsement would reinforce the "he's too risky" narrative already widely believed by many.

Tl;dr A non-endorsement might appear "neutral" but the effects would not be

or what clemenza said lol

I don't mean any offense to anyone or any of the opinions on this thread. People can vote for and support whomever they want, obviously. I fully plan to support Joe Biden if he is the nominee. I also fully plan to support Sanders if he is the nominee. I would vote for either in a heartbeat. Sometimes I get the impression from Sanders supporters that they would not vote for Biden at all, which is of course also their prerogative.

a certain % wouldn't, just as PUMAs didn't go for Obama. it happens. I'm not convinced it's an aberration.

it is unbelievable to watch this video and to think that Warren has sat on her would-be endorsement in such a crucial election pic.twitter.com/c9sESmISGV

— Dr. Manhattan 🇳🇬 (@TheNewThinkerr) March 6, 2020

Its weird to think stuff like this really wasn't all that long ago

what a difference a campaign season and thousands of assholes make

I would consider not voting for Biden if there happens to be someone on the ballot in my state I want to be president more than him (I doubt socialist alternative will put someone on the ballot if the nominee isn’t Sanders) but I wouldn’t leave it blank.

only meant to post the clip itself but when you click through to the orig it just takes to main twitter account, never quite worked out why it doesnt go to the correct tweet when that happens

This is sobering, the whole thread:

Even though my dad's a white southerner he feels the same way about Bernie: he's not a Democrat. And in my dad's mind if you're not a Democrat you're not standing in solidarity with the team that's trying to fight the fascists. You're doing some quixotic thing over here instead. That's why he's a staunch AFL-CIO guy too despite all of their historical problems partic with women and people of color. This time he voted for Bernie - but he had to be dragged kicking and screaming by my sister and the local DSA chapter (of which he's a member). And in his mind it was always just for the primary. Just so on the off-chance Bernie got the nom he could say 'I voted for him'. Not saying this is the right way to think but it's about more than just blind tribalism: it's tribalism as the most practical way of organizing opposition and anybody who doesn't want to play, or has historically not played ball, is suspect.

Man, when you have to drag a registered DSA member union guy to the polls to vote for Sanders ...

That Michael Harriot thing is great. It echoes a lot (ugh, my own cynicism and feelings that he would quickly throw under the bus stuff I deeply care about to get get his white whale). I think the switch flipped when he decided to run again and not put his efforts backing another candidate (it didn't have to be Warren).

This is sobering, the whole thread:

this is exactly what I was getting at in that flamewar the other day with milo and silby - that you can't separate black Southern Dem voters from the Dem "establishment", and when someone (ie Bernie) attacks the "establishment" they feel it's an attack on them. And in some ways they are right, you take away the structure that supports someone like Clyburn, however corrupt you may think it is, and their power diminishes. And arguing that Bernie's way will deliver for those voters through a different mechanism/structure sounds suspect to them (and to me too, frankly)

If you can imagine a person, they exist. People are idiosyncratic. xxp

(Michael Harriot and the Root are hardly uninterested or representative parties.)

I think the switch flipped when he decided to run again and not put his efforts backing another candidate (it didn't have to be Warren).

If the thread is right, and its starting to look like it might be - who would be the person that could have prevailed, who shoul Bernie have dropped out and backed?

I am not this fanfic speculator here that wants to just increase anxiety for no reason. All I know is that him running again was going to invariably draw in all the same bad blood of 2016, he's older, all of us have gotten older, more cynical. He has to also change with the times.

I don't think he should have run again. I wish Biden hadn't run, too.

totally. fucking groundhog day for the rest of my life.

And arguing that Bernie's way will deliver for those voters through a different mechanism/structure sounds suspect to them (and to me too, frankly)

This isn't really an honest question, because they'll "deliver" the same way black voters do for Democrats election after election.
It is rather insulting to a hypothetical black voter to suggest that they'll stay home in November for a guy that all evidence points to the primary opposition being "he's not electable" against Donald Trump.

If you wanted to argue that black voters only turnout in 2016 numbers, which hurt Clinton - how are the Latinx and Asian voters that Bernie is winning going to turn out for non-Bernie in November? It's been a recurring evasion by some to pretend that voters of color only means black voters. That's not true in 2020 (nor has it ever been true) - and those are two groups of people of color with more room for growth in Democratic voter share.

There's been a lot of posts and post-mortems on this over the last few days so its understandable not to want to go into that and bring it to a close, it is what it is I guess

You're doing some quixotic thing over here instead.

I also think this is an underappreciated take of a lot of older voters in general. My dad doesn't have much use for Bernie, and it's not because he's not a Democrat -- my dad voted for Barry Commoner in 1980, he was a conscientious objector to the Vietnam War, he's never had a great love for political establishments. But he also spent a lot of time with/around '60s radicals and got turned off by lots of them as endless brayers about revolution who didn't get things done. I think he sees a lot of them in Bernie and vice versa.

just going by nothing but my own experience, older asians (if they were immigrants) are pretty conservative. Their children could be progressive but a lot are pretty affluent at this point and kind of could go either way. I know enough that actually did vote for Trump because $$$.

but I kind of don't think anyone really pays attention to asians in voting anyway.

my latino family, immigrants from latin america, are pretty conservative too, mostly voters for the current president even. my parents aren't, but they're the exceptions. I know lots of first-gen latino families like this.

This isn't really an honest question, because they'll "deliver" the same way black voters do for Democrats election after election.

no idea what yr referring to here, I think you misread what I was getting at - which is that black voters trust the existing power structures/institutions they've built more than whatever Bernie would replace it with

xpost My mom is taiwanese and I had to hang out in all the chinese restaurants she worked and with a lot of similar situation families. I am pretty sure she is taiwanese at least. I've met her multiple times and did an inspection of the house she grew up in. I don't mind the spirit of capitalism like a lot of people here. In reality, having money is basically the one thing you're taught that for sure will protect you if you aren't a white man.

Asian-American and Latinx voters are both reliably Democratic (Asian-American actually more Democratic over a longer period of time) at 65+%.

Anyway I think it's super cool that in their swerving away from the Not A Democrat, folks are instead supporting a corrupt brain-damaged blowhard who doesn't even *pretend* he's going to strive for a better society and is in all likelihood going to get his fucking ass handed to him in November anyway.

that's the spirit

(tbc it's the Sanders crew's job to show that this is the case. I just don't see it happening.)

somewhat of a tangent, but the "give _____ supporters time to make their decision!" discourse is starting to bother me. it's not that I don't understand and sympathize with their point, but unfortunately there is another primary on tuesday, so one way or another, a decision is going to be made in the next couple of days, which is not much time

It will be the left's fault - Bernie hits him on trade and jobs in the primaries, he's "poisoning the well in the general!!!!" 2016 redux.

I like how you Bernie guys can swerve from "you don't support Bernie because you aren't actually suffering/have less to lose" to telling people who are clearly suffering/have a lot to lose that they are stupid for not supporting Bernie.

Really great coalition building

xps

that... was not really my point?

No coalitions are being built via ILX.

sorry wasn't talking to you Katherine, was more addressed to Simon, milo et al

xps

This is a free space to say "people who are clearly suffering/have a lot to lose" and vote for Biden are voting against their interests, because they are.

They're also voting against a lot of others peoples' interests.