Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

like, I also can't stand the subset of irony-poisoned, extremely online dudes (and this particular subset is largely dudes) whose moral first principles, from which all other principles follow, are getting to dunk on people they find cringe or whatever, but nobody I have talked to who is not also extremely online has even heard of them

When I spoke with @ewarren earlier today, she was defiant at the idea that she is obligated to support either Sanders or Biden.

"Why would I owe anybody an endorsement?" she said. "Is that a question they asked everybody else who dropped out of this race?"

— Jess Bidgood (@jessbidgood) March 6, 2020

um we *are* on the Titanic sinking and we need all hands on deck. Now.

That not only doesn't make it ok to be an asshole, it makes it actively counterproductive.

And it's not just extremely online dudes, or if it is, they're extremely prolific. I mean, I know lots of people who are not going to vote for Bernie partly because of how much they hate the cloud of jerks around him. Or if they are, it's with huge reservations, for the same reason.

But sure, it's all going to be everybody else's fault if he loses.

Yes, it will be the fault of people who vote for Joe Biden because of "jerks."

And it's not just extremely online dudes, or if it is, they're extremely prolific

I can assure you they are

XP

"We don't have time to treat other people decently, we have a revolution to win. Now join us at the barricades!"

itt i learned people are ok with toxic abusers as long as they support the candidate they like

"Yes, we overthrew two Latin American countries in favor of right-wing dictatorships but Bernie People said my cardigan was ugly."

the toxic abusers Bernie has specifically denounced repeatedly? xp

(ftr I think it's pretty dumb to change your vote based on something the candidate's supporters do or say, particular if the supporter came out against it multiple times, but still, coming at Warren for bringing it up is weaksauce)

damn xpost

I dunno, the blanket denialism about all of this from Bernie people (including some good friends of mine who I love) is weird to me. You can be down with the cause and still recognize when you have a messaging problem. Might even help.

I’d be thrilled if Warren endorsed Sanders, but I also get that deep cuts hurt deep, and are not mere epiphenomena. You can’t get to the point of fixing climate change with someone who you feel has fucked with your own internal climate, not without some venting or sense of being made whole. I mean that “you called me a liar on national television “ moment did happen, and quite possibly in her mind was an echo of attacks by Bernie surrogates and defenders.

Some highly results-driven people are able to suppress their emotions and move on quickly. She strikes me as the kind who doesn’t.

I don't blame Bernie at all because he's never encouraged it and he's always spoke out against it. I'm referring to coming at Warren for saying something about it cos 'now is not the time'

the bitchy righteous indignation of anti-berniebros itt have turned me into a Berniebro. I don't do Twitter so all I keep hearing is how toxic they are and how he needs to call them off or stop riling them up by calling for a political revolution and get down to the proper kissing of rings, but fucking Donald Trump is in the Whitehouse and y'all seem more concerned about putting down these unwashed heathens who don't understand politics and want to see real change.

Thanks, bro

as a Bernie voter I called another Bernie voter out on it on FB as he was getting aggro w/ a friend of mine. so I just saved a vote, u should be thanking me.

Bernie is also going to get trounced in FL but since it's not winner take all I'm still voting for him.

lol you must be new here if u think we're all "ehh, Trump, he's small potatoes, the bullying is the real problem".

y'all are some zero-sum trolls

A stranger posting a snake emoji on your TL should never be called "abuse."

I dunno, the blanket denialism about all of this from Bernie people (including some good friends of mine who I love) is weird to me. You can be down with the cause and still recognize when you have a messaging problem. Might even help.

yeah, this irritates me more than anything else. if you defend someone or something 100% of the time, no matter what, you are a loyal royal asshole and very annoying (unless it's jesus christ, who was perfect). that describes a lot of people but the bernie crowd takes it to the limit for sure

y'all seem more concerned about putting down these unwashed heathens who don't understand politics

Not understanding politics is not understanding politics, washed or not.

A stranger posting a snake emoji on your TL should never be called "abuse."

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z),

would you call it "asshole groupthink"

I'd call it twitter

Nobody is okay itt with “toxic abusers.”

Some of us think they shouldn’t be inflated to such importance that it costs us another warmonger who wants to slow-walk climate issues in the White House

Who fucking cares if some people online are assholes? Get offline! Read the platforms, study the issues, watch the debates if necessary....

You know what happens to those people after the election? Nothing! They aren’t going anywhere, and neither are they going to the White House, and neither will they have fuck all to do with addressing the multiple, actual crises we’re facing

ok, so how about the Bernie supporters that tweeted en masse at Hillary Clinton calling her a "bitch", or the Bernie voters who left voicemails on Roberta Lange's phone in 2016 calling her a bitch and a cunt?

this isn't imagined abuse. it's possible to acknowledge it and also say Bernie isn't to blame for it and has actively spoken out against it, because unlike Trump, he has.

this isn't difficult. and bashing EW for bringing it up is nagl

fucking bitches, man, what can I tell you

IT'S A JOKE

"shrug off the abuse, guys, we got more important things than you being doxxed and being left harassing voicemails"

things that have also happened to Sanders surrogates iirc

this is another one of those cases where people's silos and channels absolutely determine their experience to the point that I'm not sure there's any way to gauge truthfully how 'real' a problem this is; it's clearly real for some people and they experience it and they complain about it; on the other than, I myself have only ever seen one instance of this in my circle peoples. I'm sure there are many circles like this and some of them experienced this worse than others.

like i'm pretty sure EW's comments aren't going to lead voters to flock to Biden en masse. if you noticed the polls, Sanders is the second choice for most EW voters, but probably not by a large enough margin to where it won't benefit Bernie and Biden almost equally.

however...now that it's mostly a two person race (and Gabbard, lol), maybe Bernie has some more tricks. still think the aggregators are overreacting a bit to this week.

There is a major class divide between Sanders and Warren supporters that is almost always overlooked in these endless arguments.

It’s pretty simple: it’s hard to feel charitable towards high-handed pleas for civility from people who don’t have to worry about medical bills or keeping the lights on. If you can’t see this, then you are the enemy afaic

hey here's a thought - as a guy who actually took a 6k paycut due to some of the abusive behavior at his job, I don't like anybody being abused, and call it out wherever I see it.

instead of denying it's there and being flippant or accusing people who bring it up of sabotaging the election.

I’m realllllly fucking sick of it

but you know, I did have to block three sanders supporters just because I didn't like their attitudes. and I haven't had to do that with supporters of anyone else, even the one person I know who support(s)(ed) Tulsi. He had a reasoned calm statement about why he supported her; I think he's wrong; but he didn't go around getting in arguments. and these other guys did.

Maybe we can litigate online bullies in December and in the meantime do what’s necessary to keep Joe fucking Biden from winning the nomination?

Warren supporters are...rich?

huh, guess I should tell my Warren supporter friends they have money all this time and have never known it

xpost fuck off, dude. I'm voting for Bernie. can you not hold two ideas in your head at once?

I try to keep it posi and often call out fellow bernie bros in real life for their myopic vitriol (particularly re: Warren). I absolutely think it's fair for Warren to bring up all the online abuse but if that's her reason for not endorsing Bernie when the other options are Joe fucking Biden or Trump then she's a selfish asshole.

just casually throwing out there that most Sanders supporters are not white men

they are 'elites' who could afford to go to college (nevermind they are broke forever) (xposts)

Bernie voters who left voicemails on Roberta Lange's phone in 2016

This is harassment and unconscionable, yes. As Simon notes, also happens to Bernie surrogates.

What happens on a public Twitter feed is very different.

so we've now moved from "hmm she hasn't endorsed Bernie yet, not sure if she will" to "lol she won't endorse Bernie cos someone posted a snake on her twitter page, what a selfish asshole".

xpost it's not real if it's on Twitter!

Warren supporters are...rich?

Relatively speaking, yes - Warren voters were second only to Harris voters in incomes above $100k

nagl to basically tar every Warren voter with that brush.

my feed is full of Warren voters. Most of my female friends, my own mother, all Warren voters. not a damn one of them are rich. actually, most of them are paycheck to paycheck, and some are not doing well at all.

a few of them have even called out Sanders supporters for their toxicity. thanks for the suggestion that they're just coddled bitches guys!

Wait til you hear about poor Trump voters!

Fuck you dude

The Warren and Sanders supporters I know are mostly in the low-to-middle income range, with no real economic difference between them. But I'm sure that overall Warren supporters were more affluent, because her base was small and mostly college educated.

But again, this is the same, "The world sucks so I'm allowed to be a jerk" argument, which is just, like, not true. Those two things aren't connected.

xxxps Neanderthal way harsh?

Anyway, yes, speaking of compartmentalization I can hold the idea that some Bernie Sanders supporters are assholes, and at the same time know with utter certainty that in the big picture a year from now this is all absolutely meaningless.

But what if Bernie wins and appoints JFL6969 Secretary of The Interior!

Xpost Just call Warren supporters snowflakes while you're at it