Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

no argument there

what % of those do we think those instinctual Bernie dislikers are latent anti-Semites in the same way Warren haters are latent misogynists? I'll take answers off-air. xps

principled leadership is not his thing. making "deals" that appeal to some mythical center is his thing.

what % of those do we think those instinctual Bernie dislikers are latent anti-Semites in the same way Warren haters are latent misogynists?

oh cool are we calling all the women in my family self-hating jews now?

whoa now only the Left can “do tropes”

just saying both sides can play at that stupid game

(ftr I DON’T think ppl who aren’t enamored w Bernie or think he’s shouts are antisemitic)

I don't think there's a ton of anti-semitism in the Democratic opposition to Bernie tbh

now, in the general election it'd be a different story, because anti-semitism nationally will go through the fucking roof

xpost yeah the summary of feedback on bernie I have seen form my friends that agree with his platform yet still think he's a narcissist that spent his political career beautifying the very white Vermont and forgive me hE mArCHeD with MLk.

Side note science question re the DNA test not showing any Native/indigenous ancestry: Do people understand that you only get HALF of each parent's DNA and you don't know which half? So I could have an elephant in my ancestry but potentially not inherit those genes from one parent or the other, but one of my siblings *could* inherit them, so they could get the result of 10% elephant and I could get 0% but we still both "have" the genetic inheritance in an inexact way.

Or I have I completely misunderstood?

Ime, a lot of the reasons people don’t like Bernie tend to bump up against tone policing, because it’s obviously awful when people get upset and angry and uncivilised about politics. I mean, he does shout, and he is salty, and he is a tough old lad who isn’t nice and well-spoken. I guess it depends how much politics influences your life.

Anyway, the best thing written about Warren and the DNA test

What Warren did is despicable—not just because of how short-sighted and selfish it was, but because it betrays the agreement between tribal governments and the United States government that our people are their own people. In publishing this video, and believing it to be the right thing to do, she simply played the political cards exactly as she and every other white politician have been taught: wherever useful, wherever it is most expedient and pragmatic, borrow from the Native people and communities and governments. Borrow their children, borrow their land, borrow their culture, and, if you think you need to, borrow with no intent of returning what you took.

Elizabeth Warren is nothing new. She is more of the same for us. She will claim that this was the necessary response, that she can’t allow the President to constantly mock her as a liar. But she is the one who decided to cite her Native heritage, long before Trump was on the scene. In other words, she brought this mess on herself unnecessarily.

Yeah, there's something about Bernie's willingness to call bullshit that I appreciate and identify with pretty hardcore, but, yeah, I guess there's a pretty solid reason that I'm not management material and it might roughly the same reason Bernie won't be president.

it would be cool if an elephant was president

I don't think there's a ton of anti-semitism in the Democratic opposition to Bernie tbh

now, in the general election it'd be a different story, because anti-semitism nationally will go through the fucking roof

― Οὖτις, Thursday, March 5, 2020 7:25 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've been really shocked by the amt of venom on twitter for assuming with utter certainty that anyone who objected to yelling or thought Bernie was "yelling" or too forceful or too aggressive was LITERALLY 100% COMING FROM ANTI-SEMITISM and there were no other options.

I always assume that the average voter has no clue he is jewish. It doesn't even cross my mind.

xxpost Taft was secretly elephant

I hear this a lot, I think it's a basic component of why he has the ceiling he does tbh

― Οὖτις, Thursday, March 5, 2020 12:19 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i have also heard this a lot (not as much the shout-y part, but definitely "he's just another old white guy" part) and agree that it's an obstacle (tho most of my warren-backing friends plan to support sanders, because actual politics)

it would be cool if an elephant was president

just ambling around, spraying water on people, shitting on things, occasional trumpeting

oh and motivational speaker is the one I hear about Bernie a lot.

there were no other options.

surely "being part of the establishment" was an option?

anger is an energy

― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:00 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

but how much energy does C+Ping Twitter's shittiest posts really require?

in orbit, i had never heard that about dna tests. I have never taken one. I have no clue whose elephant this is.

xxpost Taft was secretly elephant

Trump is not-so-secretly elephant

forgive me hE mArCHeD with MLk.

esp considering Biden's recent uh "gaffe" on this subject

Warren's DNA thing was super-dumb and did put a dent in perceptions of her judgment, which was a problem because her judgment was one of her big selling points. But at the same time, I don't think it was that big a deal as far as her campaign or ultimate electability. Certainly no more than, like, not having the right answer about Fidel Castro. Which also I think was dumb but is unlikely to be the make-break thing for Bernie in either the primary or the general. I don't think elections turn on those individual gaffes, it has more to do with people's overall perceptions of the candidate -- which gaffes can help shape, but if people basically like or trust someone, they'll forgive a lot, and if they don't, it doesn't really matter what the candidate says anyway.

On women not liking Bernie, I know a lot of very progressive women who find him completely off-putting for exactly the reasons mentioned above. And of course that goes double or triple for his followers, or what they perceive as his followers. I also know very progressive women who are campaigning their hearts out for him, so it's not universal. But there's a reason he's not going to get some of Warren's supporters, and it's not because they love Biden.

Certainly no more than, like, not having the right answer about Fidel Castro.

did Obama also have the wrong answer

gyac xpost . this was being mocked by black people about how it's a bad defense used because he hasn't done anything specifically for black people in ages.

_ forgive me hE mArCHeD with MLk._

Maybe never mind. I read (quickly) gyac's link about why the ancestry thing was offensive to actual tribal members and I can get it though the nuances will take some time. I only learned about blood quantum maybe a year ago? And the politics behind making tribes define themselves this way and the expectation that it would lead to them dwindling into extinction and having their identity and land stolen by the govt.

I thought the problem w Warren's DNA test was that she took it and they DIDN'T find any "native" ancestry and it made her look not only tone-deaf but also *a liar.* My mistake. Apparently testing showed that she DOES have it so now the whole thing is about the offense to tribal ppl, which I'm going to have to wrap my head around a little bit more.

I mean we can dunk on Bernie for not doing better with black communities than Joe goddam Biden (sincerely!), but I’m not sure Warren has the high ground here

So I could have an elephant in my ancestry but potentially not inherit those genes from one parent or the other, but one of my siblings *could* inherit them, so they could get the result of 10% elephant and I could get 0% but we still both "have" the genetic inheritance in an inexact way.
Or I have I completely misunderstood?

we all do realize that warren is no longer running so you don't have to campaign against her.

Certainly not for him putting his actual body on the line - and yeah, that does matter - to be posted in this thread as a dig. I mean criticise what he has or hasn’t done since but yeah, that’s something he should be proud of.

xp but for what it's worth the meaning of the result is never that you are 12.5% like this race / ethnic group and 87.5% like that race / ethnic group. Not in real world terms. It's just tracking genes that are more prevalent in those groups. What you're "like" is much more determined by the environment in utero, where you grew up, the culture you grew up in etc.

for clarification it's a dig but it is a common enough thing said about him from actual black people who are critical of him. I am not black although I got a scholarship from a black fraternity in high school that I actually feel bad about now.

Would it be mIsOgYnY to respond to some of the glossed over nonsense about her itt? “Oh I didn’t even think about it”. I mean cool, but if you didn’t foresee that coming up every single opportunity of a GE campaign, if you think it didn’t matter, then you’re dead wrong about her viability as a candidate, then and now.

yet still think he's a narcissist that spent his political career beautifying the very white Vermont and forgive me hE mArCHeD with MLk.

This is unbelievably dumb. If you want to go with Warren's last salvo round that he failed to single-handedly stop the Iraq War as one of 435 Reps, okay, but "the absolute nerve he had to spend his entire life fighting for all the causes I profess to believe in" is mind boggling.

Would it be mIsOgYnY to respond to some of the glossed over nonsense about her itt?

no but this kind of response is happening hourly itt at this point

anyway thank goodness warren dropped out of the race huh

i actually have no clue what you are talking about now. that the dna test didn't bother me. It doesnt' because I am such a mutt I totally get where she thought it was a good idea. xpost

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)
Posted: March 5, 2020 at 2:17:05 PM
xpost
good post Simon

I had a realization speaking with a female friend, she just didn't LIKE Bernie on a fundamental level, like he just reminded her (she said) of older men who talk over her in meetings and dismiss her

Yes, and this is what a lot of POC/trans posters have been saying since the beginning!

xpost no, i heard she is still running. but only on this thread.

simultaneously sad about this and thinking "thank god now the discourse can end" (it won't)

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, March 5, 2020 8:48 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

milo z have you even talked to a poc, especially progressive ones who are very pro- their identity who do not like bernie and the reasons why.

Yes, and this is what a lot of POC/trans posters have been saying since the beginning!

A fascinating way to frame things, since he won with Latinx voters, Asian voters and LGBTQ voters.

we all do realize that warren is no longer running so you don't have to campaign against her.

I don't like Biden (at all) but I don't think he's an unprincipled right winger as much as someone who follows the political calculus of his party

I do think this but I also don't think they're mutually exclusive

milo z have you even talked to a poc, especially progressive ones who are very pro- their identity who do not like bernie and the reasons why.

Your friends may not be representative of progressives or POC!

i think we should all move to the prefab sprout thread and listen to some prefab sprout