Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

I actually think silby, in his garbled way, is correct, but it shows how Sanders' obsession with The Establishment did him n.

*in

I'm not garbled!

I'm pretty garbled.

South Carolina's political machine is certainly part of 'the establishment.'

That Clyburn framed the last line that way makes it pretty obvious that he wasn't starting from a neutral position with Sanders.

you guys see what you are implying, right? that Southern black voters are the enemy?

xps

I specifically didn't imply that, I implied that it's ridiculous for the House majority whip to spin attacks on the Party establishment as attacks on his voters

this might be a bad time to reveal this, and I realize it could sink my candidacy but I'd rather you hear it from me


I've never had a negroni

spin attacks on the Party establishment as attacks on his voters

except that, per polling, a large majority of those voters listened to him - they *are* his voters in a lot of ways, because they trust him and he has delivered for them.

Sanders is attacking The Establishment because The Establishment doesn't support Sanders and therefore are, yes, his enemy, for the time being

how I break it down to an extent

the Democratic establishment isn't a fake idea! they exist! and protect child rapists!

Sanders is attacking The Establishment because The Establishment doesn't support Sanders and therefore are, yes, his enemy, for the time being

that's a funny way to try and win votes, doesn't seem to be working as great as he expected

I mean, evidently!

except that, per polling, a large majority of those voters listened to him - they *are* his voters in a lot of ways, because they trust him and he has delivered for them.

... yes, that's pretty much the definition of how political machines work.

Is it bigoted against Mormons to talk about Harry Reid's Nevada machine?

By your own argument, that South Carolina's black voters were going to follow Clyburn's lead regardless - that makes any comment on 'the establishment' not about the voters themselves.

I know some people miss the glory of the machine years but machines are bad not good

and not only because they prop up and protect child rapists

a political machine where an elected official delivers for his constituency doesn't sound so bad to me

comparing Mormons to African Americans re: discrimination... man I dunno where to start w that

xps

I know it's been a rough day but you two are all over the place

the Mormons were violently chased out of multiple states iirc

here, take this shovel

I didn’t say machines were bad or good. They exist, it’s that simple. They and their leaders do benefit from the maintenance of current power structures. Kind of like... an ‘establishment.’

There was no comparison or mention of discrimination, Shakey.

split hairs all you want, equating Mormons with African Americans is stupid and no one should do it

cool straw man you found I guess

thought Gen Xers hated the establishment what gives

I've never had a negroni

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown

wait, can we go back to this

me neither

Here's the thing with machine (Tammany Hall, etc).

They're corrupt, but they feed and clothe poor people, especially non-white people.

I think we could keep doing that and also stop being corrupt

I equated machines, Shakey. That’s the point. Your argument is that it’s racist to talk about South Carolina’s establishment because its leadership and voters are black... but machines exist all over playing the same roles.

speaking of mormons has anyone suggested why bernie did so well in utah?

Meanwhile re "Bernie will bring new voters into the electorate, that's why he's electable" news,

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/04/super-tuesday-bernie-sanders-youth-votes-fell-short-compared-2016/4947795002/

I've never had a negroni

Remedy that ASAP! At the very least it's a useful life skill to know how to mix drinks with ingredients in equal ratio. 1:1:1 for the win!

Your argument is that it’s racist to talk about South Carolina’s establishment because its leadership and voters are black...

I made no such argument

Come five o'clock I'm going to have a fucking Negroni. (Which is basically like a regular Negroni, except you handle hot peppers first.)

outic nobody is saying what you're repeatedly telling them they're saying, and they're repeatedly telling you they're not saying that.

also i believe i have had a negroni but i can't really remember what it was like so i guess I should give it another go

It was good, iirc.

for the record (although I dunno why I'm bothering):

- I think dismissing South Carolina's black voters as "establishment" votes is kind of racist, as it smacks of arguing that their votes are not legitimate or worth courting; like I said it positions them as the "enemy" of Bernie's campaign, which is both offensive and stupid tactically.
- I think equating Reid's Nevada political machine (characterizing it as Mormon is weird, I don't think the majority of Nevada Dems are Mormon?) to the black Democratic political machine is racist and ahistorical

xps

At the very least it's a useful life skill to know how to mix drinks with ingredients in equal ratio. 1:1:1 for the win!

Sipping on a Boulevardier as I type and blasting the new U.S. Girls.

- I think dismissing South Carolina's black voters as "establishment" votes is kind of racist

how do you "dismiss" a vote anyway?

I think dismissing South Carolina's black voters as "establishment" votes

You’re literally the (only) person who described them as “his voters.”

I'll just go ahead and quote Alfred here

'To dismiss the African Americans, former Republicans, and indies who voted in overwhelming numbers as people less livid about the state of the world, as several posts I've read have implied, registers as a kind of mansplaining.'

the "dismissed" comment came from Clyburn, obviously he felt Sanders didn't a) think their votes were worth courting or b) was gambling they would be overwhelmed by other voting blocs

let me c+p that again for you

“I find it very interesting that someone is referring to African American voters in South Carolina as the establishment,” Clyburn said. “I don’t understand how that vote can be dismissed.”

Clyburn in that quote seems to be dodging the fact that the establishment isn't "African American voters in South Carolina", it's him, James Clyburn

Or maybe he felt his time would be better spent not in the one state Biden focused his time and resources on? Xps

that's weird cuz without the voters his "establishment" would be powerless

xps

hhhhhhhhhh