Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

First Negroni in an hour!

Warren changing her vague and leftover Republican registration late in life due to realising things and changing her mind is one of the very best things about her, not a disqualifier. Most people don't learn shit the older they get, and even more refuse to acknowledge they have changed, bcz they think it makes them look dumb.

Sanders has often sounded more as if he believes he’s leading his movement in a hostile takeover of the party than a merger with it.

this is also one of Bernie's best features, but yeah it was a misstep to actively campaign on it in the last two weeks.

I feel like that line of argument can't explain why black voters went for Biden?

old black voters in the south are a different demographic from, eg, young black voters in LA. it's not analytically useful to look at who "white voters" went for.

it's like if we'd all agreed to start reading local newspaper comments sections again and spent half the day performatively rolling our eyes at the moronic shit some uninformed and venom-filled insurance salesman in topeka just posted under the local news's reporting about the closing of the Gadsden Galleria Mall. like wtf are we doing here? who cares what these people think? why are any of them being invoked to win arguments? we're smarter than that! ilx can be a space to... not do that!

Dr Casino otm. anyone posting disparagingly itt abt what "berniebros" are saying needs to provide at least 100 citations. every politician ever has loads of idiot or obnoxious supporters, because loads of people are idiots or obnoxious, and loads of perfectly nice people act like idiots or obnoxious dicks if you ask them about two specific topics.

i'll be in I Love Baseball

go to hell, rationalizers

― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, March 5, 2020 5:32 AM (one hour ago)

hi Morbs

btw I stand by the child rapist stuff from right before bedtime last night, death to child abusers in politics

(cool diversion the whole thread can enjoy: his hand-picked successor is enormously worse for the city and at her job)

i wonder what gabneb makes of all this

can I just share with everyone that I’m still chuckling to myself about k3vin’s thinking-out-loud revelation upthread that the D electorate doesn’t really want Bernie? WHAT ARE WE TO DO? truly, incrementalism is so abhorrent, better to go full misanthrope and change your handle to “dr norbius” or something.

hey man, I was being honest about my mixed feelings about how we ended up where we are, which seems to be difficult for a lot of people. I think I’ve been pretty consistent in saying people’s votes should be respected even if their votes and reasons for them are dumb. but go off!

Eh, Warren should not get bonus points because she got it wrong at first. Some of us rarely get to change our minds because we get so many things right the first time, y'know?

Believe me, I know.

Ties into how Bernie's consistency seems to offend some people, like you're dumber if you just always opposed segregation as an innate principle instead of coming to it through learned reflection.

xxpost W O W

That is a hot hot take even for Fred.

tbf he is smarter than everyone here

something you all already know but it is a decades old quote from Gloria Steinem and something that still consistently comes up, that generally "women may be the one group that grows more radical with age" and men grow more conservative due to who loses power and where it shifts.

To take it all the way back to milo’s decision to slay me righteously as a member of the Comfortable Class:

1. Certainly my family’s current socioeconomic status makes it a lot easier for me to support any Democratic candidate. We just happened to choose the most progressive one not named Bernie Sanders.

2. I would never tell anyone they were wrong for voting their conscience. I might call them stoopid if their conscience was the Green Party candidate and they lived in a swing state. I wouldn’t tell them they were wrong. Libertarians come very close to being both but in the end they’re also mostly just stoopid, not wrong.

3. My “I’m a fucking adult” remark is meant to carry two main points: that I can roll with the punches (point taken, cf 1, above) and that I recognize that the political situation we are in demands a long game, not a #revolution.

3a. Honestly that’s a reason I LIKE Warren’s phased approach to M4A, I’m inclined to incrementalist approaches because it’s almost always the only way that change ever sticks.

4. There is no small amount of magical thinking involved in believing that Bernie could accomplish the domestic policy agenda described in his rhetoric. This has been covered at length and is also a fact.

lol fred. I agree with sic btw, redemption rules and I’m glad warren is one of the good guys now

I love everyone itt, even fred. we all share a sense of despair and a need to feel superior to others which will continue to bring us together no matter what happens

if I were an incrementalist I might look at how the last 12 years have gone and have an honest self-reassessment

btw one argument in favor of Biden that I've come to realize maybe motivated a lot of people - there is way too much fucking news in our lives these days, as there has been every day since Trump started running. Biden may be ineffective and boring but he's not *evil*, while Bernie may just be 4 more years of weird infighting, whining about "socialism", and policy goals that never get done

granted it's selfish but pretty understandable imo

history stopped for about four years in the 90s and a lot of people want to get back to that

Meet me at the bar, y'all.

Sorry for being cranky last night and this morning.

I guess I'd say the End of History lasted from 1996, when effective combination antiretroviral therapy for HIV was introduced, to 9/11.

hey man, I was being honest about my mixed feelings about how we ended up where we are, which seems to be difficult for a lot of people.

Hey man, I respect your openness and how willing you were to share your thought process more or less as it happened. When it got to the part where you were like “oh shit I guess The Party Decides!” (except it’s not the party it’s voters) I mostly wanted to give you a pat on the shoulder and offer to buy you a beer.

I don’t think there was any more magical thinking among Bernie supporters regarding passing domestic policy than Warren or Biden supporters. Their ideas sound more normal than Bernie’s and might have been realistic 30 years ago, but believing that a functional Congress will sit down and hammer out a deal in 2021?

I say it's twelve years from 89 to 01 and I call it the time inbetween the wall and the towers.

if I were an incrementalist I might look at how the last 12 years have gone and have an honest self-reassessment

he was a regressive cunt and a Bush brother

*applause*

Wow! Do it again Tombot!

the Aristocrats!

lol

Bernie OTM

Bernie Sanders: "Elizabeth Warren is a very, very excellent senator. She has run a strong campaign. She will make her own decision in her own time."

On the vitriol toward her: "I'm disgusted by it," he says.

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) March 4, 2020

I am dismayed to see the Democrats are coalescing around such a radical, untrustworthy blowhard, especially after his shabby treatment of that nice boy I found working out at the gym.

i'll be in I Love Baseball

go to hell, rationalizers

― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, March 5, 2020 5:32 AM (two hours ago)

hi Morbs

― Fantastic. Great move. Well done (sic), Thursday, March 5, 2020 7:48 AM (thirty-one minutes ago)

he was a regressive cunt and a Bush brother

― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, March 5, 2020 8:16 AM (three minutes ago)

https://youtu.be/gv01acj25MU?t=12

To take it all the way back to milo’s decision to slay me righteously as a member of the Comfortable Class:

I wasn't trying to slay you righteously, I was stating what I see as reality - it's easy to be 'adult' when the stakes are lower for you personally. We're all comfortable accepting this math when it comes to race or gender, but class is still pretty much verboten or you're appealing to Trumpers if you even mention it or whatever. All of them enter into the equation and all of them are legitimate.

As to incrementalism, I don't see how it's even remotely true that that's the only methodology that sticks. The New Deal (which stuck around for decades), Social Security (still here), Medicare (still here), the CRA and VRAs (god help us all) were all fast, radical changes. Overnight, the Bidens of the world became pro-gay marriage and it wasn't a slow and steady process for them. Incrementalist social welfare is constantly on the chopping block and has been repeatedly rolled back.

Bernie very much otm througout that thread. It's a good thread. Hope Bernie wins on tuesday.

The New Deal (which stuck around for decades), Social Security (still here), Medicare (still here), the CRA and VRAs (god help us all) were all fast, radical changes.

iirc certain economic deprivations helped

Cuba's still communist and every Latin American country that tried a little nationalization, for a treat, got CIA death squads.

love that bernie thread. my president

The Assault Weapons Ban was as incremental as it gets expired and yet still became a rallying point for a generation of psychopaths to become even more deranged.
The radical, written basically overnight PATRIOT Act is going to be governing the structure of cockroach society in 3700 AD.

ouch:

House Majority Whip James Clyburn has had many productive conversations with Sen. Bernie Sanders during their shared years in Congress. But when it came to seeking the influential South Carolina endorsement, the Vermont senator didn’t make a concerted effort.

“No, not really,” Clyburn told The Daily Beast in an interview when asked if Sanders or his campaign staff did anything specific to court him ahead of the influential Feb. 29 primary.

“I had a lot of conversations with almost every one of the candidates,” he said, referencing nearly two dozen candidates, including Sanders, who attended his “World Famous Fish Fry” in Columbia in June.

But Clyburn acknowledged the outreach didn’t go much beyond that.

“I don’t need to be courted,” he said.

The congressman wields tremendous influence in South Carolina, the first of the four early voting states with a large African American population. Elected in the early 1990s, he’s been a powerful force in southern politics for decades, with Democrats in the state broadly acknowledging that his backing is one of the most coveted election gets

and the knife:

“I find it very interesting that someone is referring to African American voters in South Carolina as the establishment,” Clyburn said. “I don’t understand how that vote can be dismissed.”

he's been in his seat for a quarter of a century, is that not "established"?

...

It'd be ridiculous to call individual voters "the establishment", we're calling the establishment the establishment

I actually think silby, in his garbled way, is correct, but it shows how Sanders' obsession with The Establishment did him n.

*in

I'm not garbled!

I'm pretty garbled.

South Carolina's political machine is certainly part of 'the establishment.'

That Clyburn framed the last line that way makes it pretty obvious that he wasn't starting from a neutral position with Sanders.

you guys see what you are implying, right? that Southern black voters are the enemy?

xps

I specifically didn't imply that, I implied that it's ridiculous for the House majority whip to spin attacks on the Party establishment as attacks on his voters

this might be a bad time to reveal this, and I realize it could sink my candidacy but I'd rather you hear it from me


I've never had a negroni

spin attacks on the Party establishment as attacks on his voters

except that, per polling, a large majority of those voters listened to him - they *are* his voters in a lot of ways, because they trust him and he has delivered for them.