Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

Whattay'all make of this whole Gary Hart kerfuffle? Do we have to give this thing to Dukakis now???

Socioeconomics certainly couldn't describe the difference in your outlook and Morbs.

She was invovled with conservative causes into the '90s.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:04 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Which ones?

She wrote "Voices That Care"

Dr. Norbitus

You don’t see me teabagging this thread with the nation’s sourest grapes. I wonder why that is! Possibly because I’m a fucking adult.

there DO seem to be a CONSPICUOUS number of aggravated losers in this thread today though so maybe self-assessments of maturity are not the greatest grounds for winning attempts to dominate others online today??!?

She was invovled with conservative causes into the '90s

which, as the numerically sophisticated among know, was more than 20 years ago.

But - Bernie did build a base beyond a cult of personality, that was diverse and broad and stable! Even if it’s not enough to win, it’s an accomplishment. Warren failed to do this! And misogyny played a role, but I don’t think you can blame her failure totally on that.

no the 90s are always 20 years ago that's just the way I feel

i have employer-provided health care and it's a fuckin scam, medicare 4 all

but without the cult of personality nonsense

she has one, it's just about nostalgia for your favorite teacher

I'm a fucking adult

interesting if true

lol

btw I stand by the child rapist stuff from right before bedtime last night, death to child abusers in politics

It is perfectly fine to be weirded out by Warren's many, many years as a Republican and the her purely economic reasoning (iirc) for breaking from them. I don't think it's a good enough reason to write her off, but I don't blame anyone for doing so. Everyone has different lines in the sand and that's an acceptable one imo

I just skimmed this long Politico article about Warren's years as a Republican, and it pointed out that one of her early papers as a law professor took a pro-business position and that she tended to espouse "anti-consumer attitudes" during that time (the early 1980s). But there's nothing about her being involved in "conservative causes" at any point in her life.

From another Atlantic article:

His collapse among Democratic partisans came after recent full-throated attacks on “the Democratic establishment” in his rallies and media appearances. Sanders has often sounded more as if he believes he’s leading his movement in a hostile takeover of the party than a merger with it. (In his speech last night, he backed off only a half step, targeting his criticism at “the political establishment” rather than Democrats by name.) “It turns out that shitting all over the party you want to win the nomination of is a bad strategy,” said one Democratic pollster who is not affiliated with any campaign but requested anonymity to comment candidly on the race.

Amanda Renteria, a Democratic strategist and the former national political director for Clinton in 2016, told me that Sanders’s belligerent posture toward the party especially stood out when compared to Biden’s recent moves—namely building a cross-racial coalition in South Carolina and then winning the endorsements of three of his former rivals: Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke, and Buttigieg.

“The fact that Sanders went a little hard [against the party] in these last couple of days after he had a couple of wins made everybody a little bit nervous,” she said. By contrast, Biden and his former opponents had offered a “model of coming together and unifying” the party to take on Donald Trump.

“Bernie took the opposite approach: ‘I’m going to tell both the Democratic and Republican establishment what’s happening here,’” she added. “I think it scared people—how are we ever going to beat Trump if we are that divided?”

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/joe-bidens-super-tuesday-wins-against-bernie-sanders/607429/

I do think that's what the Warren core (at ILX and elsewhere) misses, is the visceral sense of loss many of these insane unyielding Berniebros (who are younger than average, more poor than average, more vulnerable than average) feel at the (already slim) possibility of a better world slipping away. If you're talking about how to properly reapportion your 401k, shit's just different.

more trans than average, more indebted than average, more dead friends than average

The amount of energy expended about/against Warren here is remarkable. It’s amazing how she’s managed to thwart Bernie by always losing to him and winning all of 10-12% of the vote. Women, how do they do it? I suspect witchcraft, tbh. She IS from Massachusetts.

didn't she win the ILX poll?

@Fred: Ezra Klein makes a similar point:

In recent weeks, Biden has been racking up endorsements from Democratic Party heavyweights. Days before the crucial South Carolina primary, Rep. Jim Clyburn blessed Biden — giving him the single most important endorsement a Democrat can win in South Carolina. Biden went on to win the primary by almost 30 points. Days later, Biden got endorsements from Pete Buttigieg, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke, and Harry Reid — endorsements that, in his speech Tuesday night, he credited with helping him notch a shockingly strong Super Tuesday performance.

Sanders’s supporters have reacted to these endorsements with fury. To them, it’s proof the fix is in.

If Biden wins the nomination, it will be a real lesson in how power works. Bernie was on track to win, Biden had no campaign, and they all knew it. So a few phone calls were made behind the scenes to Amy, Pete, Beto. Several million was put into a pro-Warren Super PAC. Voila!

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) March 4, 2020

If that’s the lesson Sanders’s supporters take about how power works, it’s the wrong lesson. The work of the president requires convincing legislators in your party to support your agenda, sometimes at the cost of your political or policy ambitions. If Sanders and his team don’t figure out how to do it, they could very well lose to Biden, and even if they win, they’ll be unable to govern.

lol tipsy

bernie won the poll.

milo z and tipsy both otm

Lotsa bad faith takes today, presumably in response to posts rendered only semi-readable by an aggrieved Sanka spittake sprayed across one's monitor.

Remember y'all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXGgWf2lacM

fwiw while I voted for Warren I've never considered myself "Warren-core" - I never felt any sense of devotion to any of the candidates tbh - and resent the strawmanning about her "supporters" but hey since we're going there I guess white men gonna white man

bernie won the poll.

You're right. Pretty close, though!

lotta white man tu quoque today

We're All in the Same Gang slaps, possibly my favorite Dre production

xp

i've almost started a warren thread a couple of times but then thought some people would lose their minds. She's been pretty non-existent on ilx in comparison. i really don't understand this reality people are reimagining. outic otm.

nathan j robinson is an enormous idiot and a bad writer

I could go for a Quoque Monsieur

ok lol

Haha "strawmanning" - but those two former ILXor Berniebros you follow on Twitter tell the real story about things.

It is perfectly fine to be weirded out by Warren's many, many years as a Republican

I agree.

In a nation of ~335 million people, it is perfectly fine to hold almost any political opinion for almost any reason (obviously excluding the more fascist/racist end of the spectrum from "fine"), because the system operates on the assumption that every individual opinion will be subsumed into the aggregate porridge of irrationality that drives US politics.

I'd go so far as to say that being "weirded out" by something about a candidate is probably a factor in more than half of the votes cast, but exactly what weirds out any particular voter is completely personal and unpredictable.

I get weirded out every time a candidate mentions their religion or God.

I will pray for you.

gesundheit

endless hair-splitting arguments about where the last scintilla of superior morality lies, and a relentless drive to associate yourself with that most-pure of all positions and the fanatic urge to drive everyone else into that corral.

It’s not about purity, it’s about policies that will benefit people and Warren is not trusted to be that person.

this is a funny sentence insofar as the second half contradicts the first half

If I was a young person in America staring down the barrel of crushing student debt, nonexistent healthcare and a way of life for my parents that just isn’t possible for me...yeah, I think I’d be “fanatic” too.

except the youth turnout yesterday was deplorable

Some are fanatics, some are disaffected. Both are understandable responses to being deprived of agency and neither is a moral failing.

hard to get to the polls with the student debt weighing them down

younger than average, more poor than average, more vulnerable than average)

more trans than average, more indebted than average, more dead friends than average

Harsh as it sounds, electoral politics are dominated by the average. In local politics, that average is local. To win in national politics you need to build an especially broad coalition and that coalition will be dominated by the national average. I want to live in a country where the young, the poor, the vulnerable, the trans, and the indebted are able to live a decent life with dignity, because widespread misery makes for a miserable society. But that position has to fight raging headwinds caused by capitalism, racism, sexism and fascism.

Also, I'd like to point out that Bernie, while weakened, has not lost. Maybe instead of recriminations and gnashing of teeth, it is a good time to enlarge the coalition.

What percentage of voters in the general are independent and how much do they matter?

xpost after we're done identifying and ousting all the Warren sympathizers and PMC moles

xp - no one doesn't know that - but that was in reference to why tombot can 'be a fucking adult' and the 22-year old trans kid on Twitter making $10 an hour might not react so calmly to possible outcomes.

I feel like that line of argument can't explain why black voters went for Biden?

/ If I was a young person in America staring down the barrel of crushing student debt, nonexistent healthcare and a way of life for my parents that just isn’t possible for me...yeah, I think I’d be “fanatic” too. /

except the youth turnout yesterday was deplorable

NBC only counts about a 50-delegate difference between Biden and Sanders + they are done with the region where Biden has the strongest advantage.