Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

they sure aren't

minor point but fwiw warren has said that while she kept her registration republican into the 90s the last republican candidate she voted for was ford.

enjoying this thread rocketing backward through time argument-wise

She saw the light, great, but there's zero "well, in those days" excuse for being a Republican any time after 1966.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:42 AM (four minutes ago)

wait what? ??? if you want to set a cut off date, at least use the implementation of Nixon's Southern strategy ...

I didn't say that - but it's certainly something that can reasonably held against her as a person and as a candidate. This isn't an 18-year old who cast their first vote for Ron Paul because they liked weed and didn't grasp that he's a white supremacist. She was an adult, fully formed, professionally successful and found Reagan's politics perfectly acceptable.

And, as we've seen pointed out in this thread multiple times, endorsements from the first choice matter a great deal (and it's leftist brainworms to suggest that she wouldn't have endorsed Sanders on dropping out).

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, March 4, 2020 12:46 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Okay, I agree that if Warren had dropped out and immediately endorsed Sanders, then it would have helped Sanders. I certainly don't think she would've endorsed Biden, but I suppose I was imagining a scenario where she didn't make an endorsement. Perhaps it's too late for that.

'66 was the hard start of the racist backlash against the events of '64-5 that lead to the Southern Strategy.

Reagan's election, enormous House swing to the Republicans, etc.

yeah lol one of them even lost his fucking mind and left ILX because he was not sufficiently rewarded for his anti-Hillary trolling leading up the to general election.

can't believe you jerks drove Garu G away like that

I didn't say that - but it's certainly something that can reasonably held against her as a person and as a candidate. This isn't an 18-year old who cast their first vote for Ron Paul because they liked weed and didn't grasp that he's a white supremacist. She was an adult, fully formed, professionally successful and found Reagan's politics perfectly acceptable.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, March 4, 2020 12:50 PM (thirteen seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Held against her to what end? Just so you can say that she sucks?

if you DO want to play the "i'm going back in time to help bernie" game, don't waste your time getting warren to drop out --- force pete and amy to stay in and divide up the centrist competition. just "doing the math" that seems like by far the most important thing. maybe you'd also swing around and find a way to keep bloomberg from making it to that debate he bombed horribly, since that helped out biden tremendously.

compared to those things, warren's vote totals really don't matter much, especially since some of her voters probably would have picked biden. the main way in which she hurt bernie's chances was by her great success body-slamming bloomberg, which let's be clear was awesome and not to be regretted given how much folks here were terrified of a bloomberg presidency (or landslide bloomberg loss to trump) a short time ago. but bernie's best hope was a crowded center-right field and that evaporated in the last week. i'm bummed about it but it's what happened imo.

I didn't say to any end. Silby, IIRC, is the one who specifically said he held it against her. You'd have to ask him.

I'm saying it's an understandable reaction to think less of someone because they were a Republican (and I'll suggest that pretty much everyone here would agree if it was anyone but Warren).

To my end, it's that I respect her less as a person (as I also respect less anyone who's ever cast a vote for a Republican at any level, much less worked with the Federalist Society).

She voted for Reagan twice and HW Bush, it's not like she cast a ballot for Fightin Bob LaFollette. Republicans were already deeply into their horrible sociopath phase.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z)

You keep repeating this, but it isn't true. Warren says that the only GOP presidential candidate she ever voted for was Gerald Ford.

I didn't say I did either! Just summarizing what my friends and informants who are more left-wing than I am think

Ahem. In regard to the 'BernieBro' phenomenon. It's nothing new, has little to do with Bernie, and will be replicated elsewhere long after Bernie fades from the scene.

It's a long-standing and noticeable dynamic within leftist politics that it attempts at all times to find and occupy the moral high ground. That is the great strength of progressive politics, but also leads to two of the less-attractive features that are prominent in leftist politics: endless hair-splitting arguments about where the last scintilla of superior morality lies, and a relentless drive to associate yourself with that most-pure of all positions and the fanatic urge to drive everyone else into that corral.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/189657--liberal-favorite-elizabeth-warren-admits-she-was-a-republican

But she declined to say whether she voted for Ronald Reagan in either his first presidential campaign or his reelection campaign.

Fair enough, I remembered her Come To Jesus story as changing her vote - but I don't know about the Ford bit either. She was invovled with conservative causes into the '90s.

If we're really going back in time, this was probably the wrong strategy to begin with: He’s counting on winning Iowa and New Hampshire, where he was already surprisingly strong in 2016, and hoping that Cory Booker and Kamala Harris will split the black electorate in South Carolina and give him a path to slip through there, too. And then, Sanders aides believe, he’ll easily win enough delegates to put him into contention at the convention. They say they don’t need him to get more than 30 percent to make that happen.

From the Atlantic in april 2019: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/04/bernie-sanders-thinking-he-will-win-it-all-2020/587326/

can I just share with everyone that I’m still chuckling to myself about k3vin’s thinking-out-loud revelation upthread that the D electorate doesn’t really want Bernie? WHAT ARE WE TO DO? truly, incrementalism is so abhorrent, better to go full misanthrope and change your handle to “dr norbius” or something.

Honestly the #1 thing I wanted this go-round was for a candidate to step up with policies similar to Bernie, but without the cult of personality nonsense and the inability to grow a base beyond #revolution burnouts. Fool me twice, etc.

I got what I wanted in a candidate, she just turned out to be a distant third to the old white men because this country is misogynist AF. You don’t see me teabagging this thread with the nation’s sourest grapes. I wonder why that is! Possibly because I’m a fucking adult.

Also you have employer-provided healthcare?

Whattay'all make of this whole Gary Hart kerfuffle? Do we have to give this thing to Dukakis now???

Socioeconomics certainly couldn't describe the difference in your outlook and Morbs.

She was invovled with conservative causes into the '90s.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:04 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Which ones?

She wrote "Voices That Care"

Dr. Norbitus

You don’t see me teabagging this thread with the nation’s sourest grapes. I wonder why that is! Possibly because I’m a fucking adult.

there DO seem to be a CONSPICUOUS number of aggravated losers in this thread today though so maybe self-assessments of maturity are not the greatest grounds for winning attempts to dominate others online today??!?

She was invovled with conservative causes into the '90s

which, as the numerically sophisticated among know, was more than 20 years ago.

But - Bernie did build a base beyond a cult of personality, that was diverse and broad and stable! Even if it’s not enough to win, it’s an accomplishment. Warren failed to do this! And misogyny played a role, but I don’t think you can blame her failure totally on that.

no the 90s are always 20 years ago that's just the way I feel

i have employer-provided health care and it's a fuckin scam, medicare 4 all

but without the cult of personality nonsense

she has one, it's just about nostalgia for your favorite teacher

I'm a fucking adult

interesting if true

lol

btw I stand by the child rapist stuff from right before bedtime last night, death to child abusers in politics

It is perfectly fine to be weirded out by Warren's many, many years as a Republican and the her purely economic reasoning (iirc) for breaking from them. I don't think it's a good enough reason to write her off, but I don't blame anyone for doing so. Everyone has different lines in the sand and that's an acceptable one imo

I just skimmed this long Politico article about Warren's years as a Republican, and it pointed out that one of her early papers as a law professor took a pro-business position and that she tended to espouse "anti-consumer attitudes" during that time (the early 1980s). But there's nothing about her being involved in "conservative causes" at any point in her life.

From another Atlantic article:

His collapse among Democratic partisans came after recent full-throated attacks on “the Democratic establishment” in his rallies and media appearances. Sanders has often sounded more as if he believes he’s leading his movement in a hostile takeover of the party than a merger with it. (In his speech last night, he backed off only a half step, targeting his criticism at “the political establishment” rather than Democrats by name.) “It turns out that shitting all over the party you want to win the nomination of is a bad strategy,” said one Democratic pollster who is not affiliated with any campaign but requested anonymity to comment candidly on the race.

Amanda Renteria, a Democratic strategist and the former national political director for Clinton in 2016, told me that Sanders’s belligerent posture toward the party especially stood out when compared to Biden’s recent moves—namely building a cross-racial coalition in South Carolina and then winning the endorsements of three of his former rivals: Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke, and Buttigieg.

“The fact that Sanders went a little hard [against the party] in these last couple of days after he had a couple of wins made everybody a little bit nervous,” she said. By contrast, Biden and his former opponents had offered a “model of coming together and unifying” the party to take on Donald Trump.

“Bernie took the opposite approach: ‘I’m going to tell both the Democratic and Republican establishment what’s happening here,’” she added. “I think it scared people—how are we ever going to beat Trump if we are that divided?”

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/joe-bidens-super-tuesday-wins-against-bernie-sanders/607429/

I do think that's what the Warren core (at ILX and elsewhere) misses, is the visceral sense of loss many of these insane unyielding Berniebros (who are younger than average, more poor than average, more vulnerable than average) feel at the (already slim) possibility of a better world slipping away. If you're talking about how to properly reapportion your 401k, shit's just different.

more trans than average, more indebted than average, more dead friends than average

The amount of energy expended about/against Warren here is remarkable. It’s amazing how she’s managed to thwart Bernie by always losing to him and winning all of 10-12% of the vote. Women, how do they do it? I suspect witchcraft, tbh. She IS from Massachusetts.

didn't she win the ILX poll?

@Fred: Ezra Klein makes a similar point:

In recent weeks, Biden has been racking up endorsements from Democratic Party heavyweights. Days before the crucial South Carolina primary, Rep. Jim Clyburn blessed Biden — giving him the single most important endorsement a Democrat can win in South Carolina. Biden went on to win the primary by almost 30 points. Days later, Biden got endorsements from Pete Buttigieg, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke, and Harry Reid — endorsements that, in his speech Tuesday night, he credited with helping him notch a shockingly strong Super Tuesday performance.

Sanders’s supporters have reacted to these endorsements with fury. To them, it’s proof the fix is in.

If Biden wins the nomination, it will be a real lesson in how power works. Bernie was on track to win, Biden had no campaign, and they all knew it. So a few phone calls were made behind the scenes to Amy, Pete, Beto. Several million was put into a pro-Warren Super PAC. Voila!

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) March 4, 2020

If that’s the lesson Sanders’s supporters take about how power works, it’s the wrong lesson. The work of the president requires convincing legislators in your party to support your agenda, sometimes at the cost of your political or policy ambitions. If Sanders and his team don’t figure out how to do it, they could very well lose to Biden, and even if they win, they’ll be unable to govern.

lol tipsy

bernie won the poll.

milo z and tipsy both otm

Lotsa bad faith takes today, presumably in response to posts rendered only semi-readable by an aggrieved Sanka spittake sprayed across one's monitor.

Remember y'all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXGgWf2lacM

fwiw while I voted for Warren I've never considered myself "Warren-core" - I never felt any sense of devotion to any of the candidates tbh - and resent the strawmanning about her "supporters" but hey since we're going there I guess white men gonna white man

bernie won the poll.

You're right. Pretty close, though!

lotta white man tu quoque today

We're All in the Same Gang slaps, possibly my favorite Dre production

xp

i've almost started a warren thread a couple of times but then thought some people would lose their minds. She's been pretty non-existent on ilx in comparison. i really don't understand this reality people are reimagining. outic otm.