Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

lol how's that workin out for ya

I mean I think people saying "Warren cost Bernie the election!" are wrong but hypocrisy, whomst cares

I am inclined to think that the more...vociferous element of the Berniebro contingent is, in their own way, as potentially problematic as the deplorables.

at least we might be able to arm them as paras in the coming militia wars

"Warren cost Bernie the election" is "Jill Stein cost Clinton the election" for members of the DSA

whomst cares

I care, insofar as the argument being made is unconvincing due to its being transparent. It means the argument is being deployed in the service of a foregone conclusion (Bernie is the only acceptable candidate). Cult of personality behavior is always baffling/depressing to me. I like to think that the left is better than that but obviously we are not.

xp Not even close (to as potentially problematic)

xposts By which I mean those who tend toward treating Bernie's thing more like a cult of personality without really taking to the underlying politics so much. Those for whom strident shouting and being right are among the most important things.

There's a shite element to every stanbase. (For Warren ppl it's primarily the "if only these uneducated rubes understood her appeal!" stance)

lol, did not even see Shakey's evocation of 'cult of personality' but there you go.

Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby) at 12:08 4 Mar 20

at least we might be able to arm them as paras in the coming militia wars


Fortnite skills don't translate irl

deplorables generally more murderous/well-armed afaict

Support your local chapter of the Socialist Rifle Association

k3vin my post was really in response to your "just a big coincidence, huh?" construction, which implies something particularly shady/nefarious. i don't anybody disagrees that the progression of events in linear time was bad for Sanders, and that the results yesterday would have been different if yesterday had not come after the sequence: Warren-murks-Bloomberg -> Clyburn endorses Biden -> Biden wins SC -> Pete and Klob drop out -> Pete and Klob endorse Biden. unfortunately it did. and so all we have is those results to try and suss out the "will of the voters" that Outic invoked. but those people staying in the race wouldn't have made more people vote for Bernie, it'd just have majorly improved his delegate and "contests won" position.

I think it's just an artifact of pushing to the extremes of any political ideology, really. The safety catch tends to snap off at a point for some people.

Support your local chapter of the Socialist Rifle Association

genuinely a good idea as long as cops and chuds (and those in the center of that Venn diagram) are stockpiling

deplorables generally more murderous/well-armed afaict

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:11 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

but also kinda out of shape generally. not a lot of stamina.

one thing that will definitely make this thread more pleasant and useful is psychoanalyzing faceless bernie bros from twitter! how do you nut jobs do this shit every day

seeing a lot of angry Berniebros on twitter going after Warren (of all people) for ruining this election for Bernie, for the country as a whole etc. The remarkably hypocritical deployment of arguments previously denounced as fallacious is quite something.

It's almost like you don't know what these vague and amorphous Berniebros said at the time?

In a swing state in 2016, staying home or voting for Jill Stein would have helped Trump. Whether you want to cast aspersions on someone for doing that is up to you - I think there's a point at which you can't demand someone vote against their interests and beliefs for a lesser evil and that given the only power someone with $5 in their bank account has is withholding their vote it's a reasonable option.

Warren on Super Tuesday hurt Sanders and made it more likely that Biden will be the nominee or there will be a brokered convention. Again, the rightness or wrongness of her voters' choice is up to you - and in this case, there is a difference in that all we've heard for a year is that they're functionally identical, voting for the old white guy instead is crypto-sexism, etc., which tends to disrupt the "I thought you had to EARN their votes huh" narrative.

It's almost like you don't know what these vague and amorphous Berniebros said at the time?

do you want me to go back to the 2016 primary thread?

ha I don't talk politics w T1nker really. Saw him a couple weeks ago at a friends' 50th bday party, all music chatter

he is a very diligent poster of Berniebro memetic content

The gotcha can, of course, be reversed - how many people saying "I thought you had to EARN their votes" were (and are) mad at Stein voters in 2016 and now carefully not applying that logic to voting for an irrelevant candidate? Plenty of ILXors certainly fall into that camp.

i for one appreciate that k3v has returned to political threads on ilx just to call us nut jobs

Letting Trump in because it's not specifically against your own interests to let him in is a massively shit move, no matter your bank account.

anyway if Socialist Alternative has a presidential candidate on the WA ballot I'll vote for them

Even poorer people have been killed because of Trump

the same way endless media coverage of Biden's failures as a campaigner and pathetic showing in Iowa/NH and Sanders establishing himself as the clear front-runner led Sanders to an upset victory in South Carolina

media was chockfull of "Sanders November disaster feared" during this period, from the elite court stenographers

do you want me to go back to the 2016 primary thread?

Were all these "twitter Berniebros" you're seeing on the 2016 ILXor thread? That would be weird.

Warren on Super Tuesday hurt Sanders

show me the states in which Warren's votes - had they all gone to Bernie - would have closed the gap and put him ahead of Biden.

xps

one thing that will definitely make this thread more pleasant and useful is psychoanalyzing faceless bernie bros from twitter!

lol I was remarking on Berniebros that Shakey and I know personally ... obv not all Bernie supporters have the same social media output

also this is to nobody in particular but the biggest negative impact of twitter on ILX is that we're now constantly arguing about things written off the cuff by dumbasses we don't know in a stupider, less discursively rich or considerate part of the internet. or making claims as to how these dumbass comments match up to things other dumbasses wrote, with the dumbasses sometimes conflated to form unitary and hypocritical straw-asses, or vague demographies of dumbasses sorted according to idiosyncratic categorizing systems with no mutual agreement on same.

these are just bozos jamming half-baked moron thoughts into their phones! it's like if we'd all agreed to start reading local newspaper comments sections again and spent half the day performatively rolling our eyes at the moronic shit some uninformed and venom-filled insurance salesman in topeka just posted under the local news's reporting about the closing of the Gadsden Galleria Mall. like wtf are we doing here? who cares what these people think? why are any of them being invoked to win arguments? we're smarter than that! ilx can be a space to... not do that!

Voting Jill Stein because of your conscience means you are a shitty person. Voting Warren because of your conscience is good and right. I don't see the hypocrisy.

dunno why you're bringing up Stein - I don't care about her and never have, and that was in the general, not the primary, which is totally different anyway.

xps

I do think blaming Warren for cutting into Sanders's support when she is running against him in the primary is at least more tenable than blaming Sanders for cutting into Clinton's support in the general when he was not only not running against her but endorsing and campaigning for her (notwithstanding unsupported nonsense arguments about whether he was sufficiently enthusiastic or whether the damage had already been done).

Were all these "twitter Berniebros" you're seeing on the 2016 ILXor thread?

I was trying not to be a dick by outing ppl but yes some were

All I know for sure, is that Warren had a lot of support in California, the largest state with the most votes, and Bernie won, and got all those votes. So, while before, I was Team Warren or Bernie, now I'm on Team Bernie.

doc casino is just otm all over this fuckin thread

but yes, point taken, Doc!

xps

we're smarter than that!

doc I'm an emotionally unstable idiot

the berniebro people on this thread are their own little terrors.

some normally even keeled progressive friends of mine went a little bonkers over bernie. It's exhausting. i am not on twitter at all.

some of you guys need to find a dog to pet, regroup and figure your shit out.

don't like dogs!

these are just bozos jamming half-baked moron thoughts into their phones!

All except Dennis Perrin who is a genius and a prophet and generally too good for this world.

I engage with twitter to the same extent that I engage with tv news, which is to say 'barely if at all'. It's how I manage to keep what little remains of my sanity/hair.

Were all these "twitter Berniebros" you're seeing on the 2016 ILXor thread?

I was trying not to be a dick by outing ppl but yes some were

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:23 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah lol one of them even lost his fucking mind and left ILX because he was not sufficiently rewarded for his anti-Hillary trolling leading up the to general election.

don't like dogs!

― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:25 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

restraining myself from the fp

show me the states in which Warren's votes - had they all gone to Bernie - would have closed the gap and put him ahead of Biden.

Which states were winner-take-all again? Percentages matter, and given that her voters' second choice option was Bernie twice as often as Biden the delegate hit is against Sanders.

This keeps getting framed as absolutes when really, no one is saying that - Warren hurt him, it's playing dumb to pretend otherwise.

dunno why you're bringing up Stein - I don't care about her

It's almost like it's not about... you?

xpost! ha, I almost suggested dog petting *or* I would send reusable shopping bags to morbs.

My guess is that a lot of loyal Dem voters who aren't political junkies were frankly relieved to be able to contract their decision-making out to someone they trust and respect and get on with their lives.

I really think this is a huge part of what's happened in the last few days, not just in South Carolina.

From the AP:

The late deciders helped Biden win Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Texas and Virginia, among several other states. In some states, they made up roughly half of all voters, according to AP VoteCast surveys of voters in eight state primaries. And the surveys show they lined up behind the former vice president. In Virginia, where nearly half of the voters waited to make up their minds, Biden won two-thirds of the late deciders.

Why did so many of these late deciders break toward Biden? Let's ask one of them:

"I saw all these people dropping out and they were all endorsing Biden, and I thought, 'Biden is the one who can be elected,'" said Badon, 57. "So I did not mail in my ballot. I went to vote today, tore up my ballot, and voted for Biden."

Or:

One interpretation of what we're seeing: A supermajority of Democratic voters do not want an intra-party fight right now, and were ready and willing to do whatever party elites told them told would end the primary asap.

— Eric Levitz (@EricLevitz) March 4, 2020

Additionally, Derek Thompson makes the point that most rank-and-file Democratic voters just aren't turned off by the party establishment. He compares Biden to Jeb Bush in 2016: a defender of the old guard, closely tied to the party's last president, who led in early polls but underperformed in debates and in IA/NH. Ultimately, Jeb! couldn't survive his association with the establishment when so many GOP voters wanted to burn it all down, while Biden largely benefits from it among a Democratic base that still reveres Obama.

osita writes for the new yorker

I guess SA is backing Bernie until further notice