Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

why was Sanders youth vote down?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/04/super-tuesday-bernie-sanders-youth-votes-fell-short-compared-2016/4947795002/

don't tell me cable news

there are plenty of Berniebros who think there's a secret cabal gimme a break, they tweet/post about the nefarious machinations of the DNC all the time

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, March 4, 2020 9:46 AM (six seconds ago)

ah our mutual friends ... how is B3n T1nker doing? Haven't seen him in a while.

unless of course you blind-test his policies, in which case he's very clearly represents the majority

If that's how elections were won, the Democrat would get 65% of the vote every time.

An acquaintance in SC wrote the following when I remarked on how 27% of South Carolina voters polled said that James Clyburn’s endorsement “strongly” motivated them to vote for Biden:

I'm an SC resident and am honestly surprised the number isn't higher. He's beloved by an awful lot of Dems here across the spectrum, both inside and outside his district. I talked to a formerly Sanders-curious coworker this morning who said Clyburn's endorsement was the deciding factor in her vote, and she's a kinda leftie who's only lived in the state for a couple years. My guess is that a lot of loyal Dem voters who aren't political junkies were frankly relieved to be able to contract their decision-making out to someone they trust and respect and get on with their lives.

ha I don't talk politics w T1nker really. Saw him a couple weeks ago at a friends' 50th bday party, all music chatter

xps

how did the treacherous DNC and Warren make the youth vote stay home compared to 2016?

Running with this line is questionable - the states where it was supposedly down were primarily red states and exit polls showing a difference of 2-3% aren't exactly an absolute fact.

I guess in the end it's sort of a relief to know the concerted, over-the-top redbaiting effort of three 24-hour cable new channels + local network affiliates + two remaining newpapers had no deleterious effect on the Sanders campaign

power to the ever-wise people

of course it had an effect

I think I would take up the middle ground somewhere between tin hattin' it re: Big Media's coordinated war on Bernie and the notion that there was no concerted effort on their part to turn the narrative against him.

you don't need a tin hat, you just need to watch more tv

I really don't.

I don't even own a television subscribe to cable or have an antenna

xp well you are wiser for it, in every regard but when it comes to having a handle on how releltless and yes, coordinated, this thing has been

in other words, "wake up sheeple"

k3vin what are you talking about exactly

― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, March 4, 2020 12:38 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

just reread my posts which I think are pretty clear?

just wanted to point out occam’s razor, which is that the party decides. I think alfred’s friend is probably not alone

I mean, I definitely don't watch televised news of any sort on the actual tv while it's airing, guilty as charged on that count, but I have seen enough clips after the fact to suggest that both the 'Bernie is a commie devil from hell' and the 'Bernie's popularity is a sign of an interesting paradigm shift' narratives were getting some play. How disproportionate one may have been over the other I can't say, but I'm not aware of any anchors, like, getting the boot for pondering the latter on air, so I'm disinclined to believe there was mandate handed down by corporate.

seeing a lot of angry Berniebros on twitter going after Warren (of all people) for ruining this election for Bernie, for the country as a whole etc. The remarkably hypocritical deployment of arguments previously denounced as fallacious is quite something.

shakey hypocrisy in politics has never been a vice, and accusations of it never land, against anyone of any stripe

the point is to scream until you win not be smarter and better

lol how's that workin out for ya

I mean I think people saying "Warren cost Bernie the election!" are wrong but hypocrisy, whomst cares

I am inclined to think that the more...vociferous element of the Berniebro contingent is, in their own way, as potentially problematic as the deplorables.

at least we might be able to arm them as paras in the coming militia wars

"Warren cost Bernie the election" is "Jill Stein cost Clinton the election" for members of the DSA

whomst cares

I care, insofar as the argument being made is unconvincing due to its being transparent. It means the argument is being deployed in the service of a foregone conclusion (Bernie is the only acceptable candidate). Cult of personality behavior is always baffling/depressing to me. I like to think that the left is better than that but obviously we are not.

xp Not even close (to as potentially problematic)

xposts By which I mean those who tend toward treating Bernie's thing more like a cult of personality without really taking to the underlying politics so much. Those for whom strident shouting and being right are among the most important things.

There's a shite element to every stanbase. (For Warren ppl it's primarily the "if only these uneducated rubes understood her appeal!" stance)

lol, did not even see Shakey's evocation of 'cult of personality' but there you go.

Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby) at 12:08 4 Mar 20

at least we might be able to arm them as paras in the coming militia wars


Fortnite skills don't translate irl

deplorables generally more murderous/well-armed afaict

Support your local chapter of the Socialist Rifle Association

k3vin my post was really in response to your "just a big coincidence, huh?" construction, which implies something particularly shady/nefarious. i don't anybody disagrees that the progression of events in linear time was bad for Sanders, and that the results yesterday would have been different if yesterday had not come after the sequence: Warren-murks-Bloomberg -> Clyburn endorses Biden -> Biden wins SC -> Pete and Klob drop out -> Pete and Klob endorse Biden. unfortunately it did. and so all we have is those results to try and suss out the "will of the voters" that Outic invoked. but those people staying in the race wouldn't have made more people vote for Bernie, it'd just have majorly improved his delegate and "contests won" position.

I think it's just an artifact of pushing to the extremes of any political ideology, really. The safety catch tends to snap off at a point for some people.

Support your local chapter of the Socialist Rifle Association

genuinely a good idea as long as cops and chuds (and those in the center of that Venn diagram) are stockpiling

deplorables generally more murderous/well-armed afaict

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:11 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

but also kinda out of shape generally. not a lot of stamina.

one thing that will definitely make this thread more pleasant and useful is psychoanalyzing faceless bernie bros from twitter! how do you nut jobs do this shit every day

seeing a lot of angry Berniebros on twitter going after Warren (of all people) for ruining this election for Bernie, for the country as a whole etc. The remarkably hypocritical deployment of arguments previously denounced as fallacious is quite something.

It's almost like you don't know what these vague and amorphous Berniebros said at the time?

In a swing state in 2016, staying home or voting for Jill Stein would have helped Trump. Whether you want to cast aspersions on someone for doing that is up to you - I think there's a point at which you can't demand someone vote against their interests and beliefs for a lesser evil and that given the only power someone with $5 in their bank account has is withholding their vote it's a reasonable option.

Warren on Super Tuesday hurt Sanders and made it more likely that Biden will be the nominee or there will be a brokered convention. Again, the rightness or wrongness of her voters' choice is up to you - and in this case, there is a difference in that all we've heard for a year is that they're functionally identical, voting for the old white guy instead is crypto-sexism, etc., which tends to disrupt the "I thought you had to EARN their votes huh" narrative.

It's almost like you don't know what these vague and amorphous Berniebros said at the time?

do you want me to go back to the 2016 primary thread?

ha I don't talk politics w T1nker really. Saw him a couple weeks ago at a friends' 50th bday party, all music chatter

he is a very diligent poster of Berniebro memetic content

The gotcha can, of course, be reversed - how many people saying "I thought you had to EARN their votes" were (and are) mad at Stein voters in 2016 and now carefully not applying that logic to voting for an irrelevant candidate? Plenty of ILXors certainly fall into that camp.

i for one appreciate that k3v has returned to political threads on ilx just to call us nut jobs

Letting Trump in because it's not specifically against your own interests to let him in is a massively shit move, no matter your bank account.

anyway if Socialist Alternative has a presidential candidate on the WA ballot I'll vote for them

Even poorer people have been killed because of Trump

the same way endless media coverage of Biden's failures as a campaigner and pathetic showing in Iowa/NH and Sanders establishing himself as the clear front-runner led Sanders to an upset victory in South Carolina

media was chockfull of "Sanders November disaster feared" during this period, from the elite court stenographers

do you want me to go back to the 2016 primary thread?

Were all these "twitter Berniebros" you're seeing on the 2016 ILXor thread? That would be weird.

Warren on Super Tuesday hurt Sanders

show me the states in which Warren's votes - had they all gone to Bernie - would have closed the gap and put him ahead of Biden.

xps

one thing that will definitely make this thread more pleasant and useful is psychoanalyzing faceless bernie bros from twitter!

lol I was remarking on Berniebros that Shakey and I know personally ... obv not all Bernie supporters have the same social media output