bojo is king, brexit is on, stuff is fvcked, tomorrow starts here -- new govt new thread new battle

There was plenty of self-reflection itt over the past few months.

That the conclusions might not align with the ones you'd draw is another matter.

self reflection is good

self flagellation, which is what you seem to be implying, can fuck off

oi

― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Wednesday, 4 March 2020 11:09 (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

dmac's account has been hacked by polly toynbee so many times now I'm starting to think he might be having an affair with her.

gimme a sec to google

fp

fp'd for mental image

don't be so reductive about the idea of a physical loving union between two consenting adults just cos the female is old!

Her being "old" is the least of what's wrong with this particular physical loving union tbf

when did self-reflection become a thing? when the tory party were in the early 00s wilderness was anything worthwhile concluded or did they just benefit from blair leaving and the crash?

it's the idea that being reactionary and without principle or morality is how good political parties should be, often used by corporate shills masquerading as MP's.

Given that Cameron only managed to scrape past Gordon Brown after all that PR work and lol detoxification I'd say it's safe to say that even with the crash a more usual Tory leader would probably have failed.

Self reflection being for the left only is in line with beliefs that the left is illegitimate and doesn’t have a role to play in politics. Vote for this person who opposed rights for you, shut up complaining or you’ll let the fascists in, none of your cranks are electable like my guy in a suit, the media don’t influence people’s views. That’s the most the left is ever allowed to have and no, nobody will ever learn any lessons from this.

They concluded they needed a young unbald centrist in a suit to get elected.

when did self-reflection become a thing? when the tory party were in the early 00s wilderness was anything worthwhile concluded or did they just benefit from blair leaving and the crash?

I think they realised that they needed a veneer of social liberalism to be palatable, tbh.

Obviously, on further reflection, they've largely abandoned it.

They did at least pay lip service to self-reflection after 2001, the decision to just forget all that stuff was one of the reasons behind May's disastrous performance in 2015.

The current Tory party are something else entirely and the usual rules don't seem to apply. Labour's best chance of winning is probably to find some way of getting rid of Johnson between now and 2025 and yeah good luck with that one.

seems weird thinking back to all hoodie hugging and all the exhibitionist cycling about he did, when all along he was fixing to plunge millions into poverty and kill loads of disabled ppl lol!

voting for hague, howard and IDS to me suggests the reason they didn't elect a comparatively slick soft type earlier was bc one wasn't available

How soon we forget Michael Portillo.

You get so-called conservatives tickled by the whole ‘naughty Boris’ thing which allows him and his minions to behave in the way they do. This wasn’t in anyone’s crystal ball pre-2016 and has been enabled by American shenanigans too.

how would portillo have done with the membership I wonder

Cameron pushed the big society which in some ways is a form of community organising. There was a hint of substance that was lapped up before organising with (ultimately) the BXP to form a coalition that could win outright.

Wish I could, he's on the BBC every fucking time with his railway programmes. xposts

with his colourful shirts and deeply strange voice, precious bradshaw's clamped under his arm. he might have done better than clark?

If Biden is trounced it will be because BernieBros stayed home in a fit of pique

Starmer cant be trounced for another 4 years. I can't see him still being leader in 4 years (same goes for the other two)

― anvil, Wednesday, 4 March 2020 bookmarkflaglink

That's what I said and everyone laughed!

― strangely hookworm but they manage ream shoegaze poetry (imago), Wednesday, 4 March 2020 bookmarkflaglink

I'm laughing at this Bernie Bros stuff all the way.

Starmer will be leader for four years. Why wouldn't he?

Given that Cameron only managed to scrape past Gordon Brown after all that PR work and lol detoxification I'd say it's safe to say that even with the crash a more usual Tory leader would probably have failed.

Brown's biggest faling was delaying the election. Electorates punish prevarication, hesitation, and weakness

Starmer will be leader for four years. Why wouldn't he?

I mean maybe, but no leadership challenge?

Let’s not forget that a lot of Cameron’s socially liberal policies went down badly with his own MPs and voters - gay marriage was passed with Labour support - and that he shifted right as soon as he won his majority after an extremely racist election campaign. Plus he couldn’t win a majority in 2010 despite running against Brown following the economy going to shit.

Can't see a leadership challenge, no, not least because Starmer can compromise on principles to keep enough people onside.

I never foresaw a challenge forcing him out. Just the endless attacks and wrecking combining to force a resignation. He’s barely faced any scrutiny during this but that’ll change as soon as he takes office.

LOOOOOOL at PMQs Corbyn has just asked if it’s ok that taxpayers’ money was spaffed up a wall to compensate victims of Priti Patel’s bullying.

Portillo tanked with the membership and it goes to prove they wouldn't have gone for any old slick guy in a suit styling himself as a social liberal in touch with modern Britain. The availability of one of those types wasn't the issue, they just weren't desperate enough at that point.

Brown's reputation collapsed almost overnight after delaying the election. He would probably have won although I can't remember how close it would have been to the collapse of Northern Rock.

portillo didn't make it as far as the membership did he?

Apart from anything else: Labour is expected to get an almighty kicking at the local elections - that might continue over the next few years, but if it's not significantly improved at the same elections in 2024, I can definitely see Starmer for the chop.

Ogmor you might be right, I think I'm misremembering the rules.

Lilley, Maude, Clarke, possibly even Yeo, were all in the mix at various points, along with Portillo.

Yeah, Portillo lost by one MP vote to IDS, in second behind Ken Clarke - the order reversed by the membership.

yeah Ken Clark and Portillo managing to lose to IDS was p incredible in retrospect. suspect portillo wld have done better than clark with the membership but man there was a big majority for IDS. I wonder what proportion of the 2001 IDS voters are still alive

I can't even remember what Portillo's stance on the EU was, and that was surely the crux of how Clarke was able to lose to a politician as manifestly useless as IDS. Cameron's pro-Europeanism was always more guarded and circumspect.

If the Labour Party couldn't find a way to get rid of either Miliband or Corbyn I don't see how they'll be able to mount a successful challenge to Starmer especially if he wins by as big a margin as predicted.

They've attempted to oust four leaders in a row and have failed on every occasion, unless you count Blair's eventual resignation. You have to conclude they're just terminally shit at regicide.

Portillo has always been anti-EU. He was never anywhere near the being part of the liberal wing of the party, so the Cameron comparison does not hold up.

Cameron was just a cipher who cloned Blair for the Tory Party, I've no idea what this politics actually are, Portillo was a staunch Thatcherite.

Nah he definitely tried to reposition himself as a reformed character and a liberal of sorts, or at least a moderniser, in 2001. That was probably down to expediency as much as anything else.

listening to portillo on the moral maze and on brillo pad's axed show for years, definitely gave the impression to me of a horribly right-wing beast.

but I'm talking recent years here

Cameron’s job as an ex-PR was to be as innocuous as possible in the run-up to power and then parachute right-wing arseholes into all the British soft-power institutions while most people who hated him were focusing on the cruelty of austerity.

Johnson says Patel is doing an excellent job. There is an investigation. But he will take no lessons on bullying from Corbyn, who saw female MPs leave the party over bullying.

Corbyn says we have a part-time PM who covers up for bullies. Patel has been accused of bullying and harassment, leading to hard-working staff attempting suicide. He says Johnson has no shame.

Johnson says Corbyn is a full-time neo-Marxist. He says he is proud of his record. He lists some of the actions taken by the government. That is just in the last 82 days, he says. He is getting on with the people’s priorities.

Spitting Image confirms return in 2020 as BritBox UK unveils first original commission https://t.co/qJba66VivO pic.twitter.com/vHB6qv1oYQ

— ITV Press Centre (@itvpresscentre) March 4, 2020

omg this will break all known records of sucking and blowing shit at the same time

Trump looks like he swallowed Farage.