Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

I mean after he has won

So do we

stop posting fred

Hope springs eternal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqm_u_PWQSs

specific user such as fred

Just saying, the whole 'hope #LoserLIZ eats shit and is really really humiliated on tuesday' is a bad take. I don't get the whole 'the party always gets back together again' when that mostly is so because they are all centrist careerists who agree on doing nothing anyway. Sanders needs to get the party behind him, and he has a tougher job than others would have had, since he is outside the party consensus. The way Trump did it was to basically give the center-right everything they wanted anyway on judges and tax cuts, and I don't imagine that is what anyone is hoping for.

You're right, I'm sure Warren will take a good hard look at things and decide we're better off with Trump after Bernie wins the nom

Sund4r and Morbius: Why do you think Sanders would be more likely than Warren to get progressive legislation passed in Congress? I don't buy that mobilizing the base to exert pressure on Mitch McConnell would actually be effective, and I don't know how you get very much done in the Senate if you're not willing to end the filibuster.

I mean, I said "if anything", "slightly more believable", and "more likely" wrt shifting the centrists. Idk if anyone or anything will move McConnell but I can see Sanders being more likely to mobilize Kamala Harris's or Amy Klobuchar's constituencies, which, to some extent, he already has. I don't really know what Warren plans to do about the filibuster or why it would be easier to remove it as President than as a Senator, esp if her seat would be replaced with a Republican. They're both promising ponies, even if it seems important for Warren or some of her supporters to act like there's a difference between them on this.xps to jaymc

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/1/15/1911306/-How-Democrats-can-avoid-handing-Senate-seats-to-the-GOP-if-Warren-or-Sanders-wins-the-presidency

it's really weird we've only discussed this criticism wrt Warren when the exact same thing matters with Sanders

Tbf, I brought it up in the context of Warren being the one to change a Senate rule but I will freely admit that I didn't know VT has a GOP governor as well. (I probably only knew about Baker since I lived in his state for three years.)

Just saying, the whole 'hope #LoserLIZ eats shit and is really really humiliated on tuesday' is a bad take.

Every delegate she takes makes it more likely that there's a brokered convention and four more years of Trump. No one should give a fuck if it hurts her pride or embarrasses her or whatever.

(which also means I lived in Warren's state and emphatically do not regard her as a loser who should eat shit or whatever.)

The Warren seat filling question is because she's talked up for the Cabinet or VP (safe to say that boat has sailed) - no one talks about Bernie in those roles.

I don't think 'that boat has sailed', candidates have united after much more acrimonious campaigns

It would be a terrible bargain though, bernie needs her in senate but I can't imagine either of them would want to go back to it after this campaign. Sunken cost and all that.

It's the campaign + her not really offering anything as VP - she doesn't improve Bernie's numbers with any group except dedicated Vote Blue No Matter Who liberals. She's not pulling enough moderates to look like a unity VP candidate and she was never going to help youth or minority turnout.

no one talks about Bernie in those roles.

I know -- I wouldn't want a seventy-eight-year-old man with a heart condition either.

no one talks about Bernie in those roles

I know -- I wouldn't want a seventy-eight-year-old man with a heart condition either.

possibly also because such talk would be somewhat foolish when discussing the front runner

Correct.

when's warren gonna start going after Biden's bankruptcy bill, that's what I wanna know

it's an open goal for all the other candidates, too

the vicissitudes of the cycle have allowed biden to skate past the worst shit in his record...don't think anyone has brought up Anita Hill either

Okay, I admit, I waste too much time on US pol minutiae... But didn't Warren go after Biden on the bankruptcy bill at the very first debate? Something about him wanting to try and take credit that he helped it as VP and she got really mad or something?

Yeah, okay, fair enough, I'm leaving the thread for todayt, lol

just today?

^ gift horse inspector

It's the campaign + her not really offering anything as VP - she doesn't improve Bernie's numbers with any group except dedicated Vote Blue No Matter Who liberals.

Warren offers a lot in Treasury, the additional role the Sanders campaign checked out for her (and she could do plenty in other VP/cabinet roles). And as she's the #2 choice of so many people, adding her as #2 ought to do plenty to bring people over to a combined Sanders-led ticket.

She's also a dynamic campaigner, which gains the ticket more than a Tim Kaine in the final six months. Plus if you are concerned about a 78-year-old man with a heart condition, and/or she was either your #1 or #2 choice, it's a reasonable dice-roll that she'll get to ascend.

She's also a dynamic campaigner

citation needed

she's had the second most successful presidential run of any woman in history, i think theres something to say for that

https://carlbeijer.substack.com/p/inside-warrens-collapsing-base

Buttigieg has had the most successful Presidential campaign by an openly LGBTQ person, doesn’t make him a dynamic campaigner.

It’s weird how gleefully Bernie supporters gloat at the death of a campaign rival who is a proven progressive ally but happens to be female.

She's also a dynamic campaigner

citation needed

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, March 1, 2020 3:11 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Come on, man, you don't have to like her to notice that she is energetic and draws enthusiastic crowds.

yeah, im of the opinion that having two progressive contenders in the race has strengthened bernie's position in the mainstream of american politics

Buttigieg has had the most successful Presidential campaign by an openly LGBTQ person, doesn’t make him a dynamic campaigner.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, March 1, 2020 3:24 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

what is the fucking benchmark here? getting the presidential nomination is hard af. like, we're talking about raw political skill, not policies here. pete convinced a lot of ppl that the 37-year-old gay mayor of a small indiana town could be president, thats something.

I didn’t call anyone a “dynamic campaigner” but if the standard is “still running for President” and “draws crowds” then it’s a meaningless phrase, because it applies to everyone in history who’s made it past New Hampshire.

yeah, im of the opinion that having two progressive contenders in the race has strengthened bernie's position in the mainstream of american politics

Warren, going forward, makes it more likely that a non-progressive is the nominee (and loses to Trump).

It’s weird how gleefully Bernie supporters gloat at the death of a campaign rival

When someone shows you who they are etc

Biden is now the popular vote leader in the dem primary.

All is right with the world

Joementum is unstoppable

That’s some outstanding bad faith phrasing. The ‘campaign rival’ is ‘dead’ and yet still running, a ‘political ally’ yet actively working against the other politically and only ramping up the opposition - despite this campaign death.

citation needed

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, March 1, 2020 4:11 PM (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It’s weird how gleefully Bernie supporters gloat at the death of a campaign rival who is a proven progressive ally but happens to be female.

― rb (soda), Sunday, March 1, 2020 4:29 PM (sixteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

like this has been a messy primary and hate is being flung around in every direction, you can't possibly be surprised if supporters of one candidate aren't big fans of another candidate

there are good people on both sides

are you shocked that the side with 3-5 times the support is giving you more examples to get angry about

milo i know this place can get pretty hagiographic about warren but you've got a serious case of the twitter brain

I was responding to the (dumb and meaningless) phrase "dynamic campaigner" in terms of a VP role, and specifically in that there's no evidence of her being a great politician (or campaigner).

Warren is a great debater and probably an outstanding bureaucrat. She does not appear to be particularly skilled as a politician, any more than anyone else in high office (and less than many). Klobuchar has a stronger claim of political skill - she worked her way up the ranks of political offices, had less of a core of support at the start of all this bullshit and has stuck it out just as long and to just about as great an effect.

don't think most of that even matters when it comes to campaigning though. she's an energetic, clear speaker who fires people up and carries a devoted base. and to the majority of americans she's the #2 figure (still ahead of AOC) in a progressive movement that has very few big figures; if she isn't a part of the bernie campaign if he gets the nomination, it makes the movement seem much weaker. it would also make bernie look like a ridiculous isolated crank if she isn't invited to the tent. the tent's gonna need to be big if a progressive has any hope of beating trump imo

OTM

What does matter when it comes to campaigning, then? Who's a bad campaigner? (That's kind of my point, it's a nonsense metric - Bloomberg and Tulsi aside they all have bases, they all have crowds.)

It's up to Warren, not Sanders, whether she's 'inside the tent' and campaigning for him if he's the nominee - which is very different from being the VP nominee.

Her base, in particular, is kind of irrelevant - upper middle class liberals and liberals with graduate degrees are going to vote the Democrat regardless. They don't need to be kept onside. Klobuchar would be a better 'let's talk about some game theory' VP pick.

don't think most of that even matters when it comes to campaigning though. she's an energetic, clear speaker who fires people up and carries a devoted base. and to the majority of americans she's the #2 figure (still ahead of AOC) in a progressive movement that has very few big figures; if she isn't a part of the bernie campaign if he gets the nomination, it makes the movement seem much weaker. it would also make bernie look like a ridiculous isolated crank if she isn't invited to the tent. the tent's gonna need to be big if a progressive has any hope of beating trump imo

― ℺ ☽ ⋠ ⏎ (✖),

otm

*vote for the Democrat