(xpost) If you treat your list as a project, then I guess I can see that...I just don't know why you'd want to do that--or even try to do that--in a list of 10 films. People write books when they want to communicate all those things. To me, it's a list of your 10 favourite films, the 10 films you most want to see right now. And how much a list interests me is in inverse proportion to how tied it is to TSPDT's Top 100. If it's yet another reshuffling of Hitchcock and Ozu and Renoir and Kubrick, that's fine, I'm not questioning the person's honesty, it's just, you know, another reshuffling of something I've seen a million times before. I don't get any sense of the person, and I don't learn anything.
― clemenza, Thursday, 27 February 2020 14:53 (four years ago) link
(xpost) Don't worry--I've been impugned before, and will be impugned again.
― clemenza, Thursday, 27 February 2020 14:54 (four years ago) link
It's just different for different people, I guess. My ten favorite films definitely aren't the ten films I want to see right now.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 27 February 2020 14:55 (four years ago) link
I picked ten films I quite like and would happily argue each one is Great if pressed.
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 27 February 2020 14:57 (four years ago) link
Iβm def the least knowledgeable βvoterβ itt so far!
If it's yet another reshuffling of Hitchcock and Ozu and Renoir and Kubrick, that's fine, I'm not questioning the person's honesty, it's just, you know, another reshuffling of something I've seen a million times before.
This is a valid point: the greatest hits tossed around a bit. But! Lists are educational too. If, say, Chimes at Midnight or French Cancan appear on a list instead of Kane or Rules of the Game, I might, depending on the person, be tempted to give those films a second look.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 27 February 2020 14:58 (four years ago) link
Anyway, when I look at Eric's list right at the beginning of the thread, it's a very idiosyncratic, interesting list--reminds of the one B. Ruby Rich stuck in the middle of all the Godfather-Nashville-Taxi Driver lists in James Monaco's American Film Now--so I'm not sure what we're arguing about.
― clemenza, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:02 (four years ago) link
And how much a list interests me is in inverse proportion to how tied it is to TSPDT's Top 100. If it's yet another reshuffling of Hitchcock and Ozu and Renoir and Kubrick, that's fine, I'm not questioning the person's honesty, it's just, you know, another reshuffling of something I've seen a million times before.
On this I agree.
I'm still unclear as to how a mindset that elides Dylan/Beatles/Velvet Underground/Chuck Berry/Creedence Clearwater/Neil Young results in "horribly rote greatest-ever Rolling Stone lists" when those are exactly the artists that used to clog greatest-ever Rolling Stone lists when Rolling Stone was relevant, but I'm fine letting it be.
― πΆββοΈπ¨ (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:04 (four years ago) link
Sherlock Jr.Simon of the DesertAndrei RublevJeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 BruxellesCommandoCobraRobocopJohn WickPaddington 2Mandy
― Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:04 (four years ago) link
Mandy I feel is one that we can expect to see creeping into more and more of these lists. Might be in my 11-20.
― Expart of Languidge (Old Lunch), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:07 (four years ago) link
the first list with two films by father and son!
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:09 (four years ago) link
Mandy would be on a longlist of mine too but I think Cosmatos Jr has even greater things to come
― imago, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:09 (four years ago) link
(Just checked, and it wasn't B. Ruby Rich, it was Michael Goodwin and Naomi Wise. They had Coogan's Bluff and Petulia and The Legend of Lylah Clare and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Beyond the Valley of the Dolls; that list used to fascinate me.)
I'm not arguing that you should have those albums on your list; I'm saying that I know (from my sense of your ILM posting) that you wouldn't, but that I therefore wouldn't deem your list "suspicious." And that including such albums on a list because it's the "correct" way to approach pop-music history is what produces those Rolling Stone lists. "We're the gatekeepers of official pop history."
― clemenza, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:11 (four years ago) link
sometimes filmmakers are in a 'canon' cuz most devotees think they belong there
(or a plurality, BernieBro style)
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:13 (four years ago) link
OK, I did misread you on that one then.
I still think that Morbs is right that lists of the top ten movies "of all time" at least owe a debt of consideration to the full span of time.
― πΆββοΈπ¨ (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:14 (four years ago) link
xp
and to the full span of the globe xp
zero international films (or none before 1980) in your Top 10 just means i'm not interested in it
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:16 (four years ago) link
xp and space! Do they owe a performative gesture to prove you've made that consideration, though?
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:17 (four years ago) link
If filmism is the movie equivalent of rockism, I'd say there's a lot of filmism in this thread about list-making and canon.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:18 (four years ago) link
Roughly how many Bollywood films are we expecting in the theoretical rollout?
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:19 (four years ago) link
Oh most of my favorite films perform, alright.
― πΆββοΈπ¨ (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:19 (four years ago) link
"We have returned your ballot as you have not ticked the box to indicate that to the best of your knowledge and/or recollection, these films fuck"
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:20 (four years ago) link
Depends what you mean by Bollywood, but I could see some classics from the forties-fifties make it in. As in studio classics, not Pather Panchali etc
― Frederik B, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:22 (four years ago) link
All ballots for this scale of poll should be at least 25 films long tbh
― imago, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:24 (four years ago) link
The longer the exercise goes on, though, the more interesting the challenge becomes.
― πΆββοΈπ¨ (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:25 (four years ago) link
Gripe & Frown
― jmm, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:26 (four years ago) link
10 is plenty, adapt to constraint.
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:28 (four years ago) link
An all-time films poll, as opposed to carving out a genre or era to focus on, seems impossibly broad. We'd need a hell of a lot of voters.
― Miami weisse (WmC), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:28 (four years ago) link
the essential problem is that ten (or 12) is a very restrictive number
this board would be poisoned with recency bias, as always
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:29 (four years ago) link
xp S&S thought so too, which is why it went from about 140 ballots to, like, 850 in 2012.
― πΆββοΈπ¨ (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:30 (four years ago) link
xp as opposed to your anti-recency bias?
read that as "anti-decency"
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:31 (four years ago) link
S&S thought so too, which is why it went from about 140 ballots to, like, 850 in 2012.
S&S OTM
― Miami weisse (WmC), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:31 (four years ago) link
c'mon Eric i'd likely include MOMENT OF INNOCENCE and MULHOLLAND DR. Fairly recent as these things go.
More recent than that, i need to let them marinate another decade.
I *really* have considered if any films i've seen since '01 could generously be called one of the ten greats, and i'd just be lying if i pretended i thought so.
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:36 (four years ago) link
I do think if we made any attempt at an all-time poll, ballots of up to 50 (or more!) would produce more interesting results
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:38 (four years ago) link
yes
what about weighting though
― imago, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:41 (four years ago) link
As the poll runner-elect, I would probably resist my inclination to NOT consider weighting (as S&S doesn't). But this is ILX and ties are boring, so.
― πΆββοΈπ¨ (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:43 (four years ago) link
also, rather than a poll with a final rollout, what might be better if workable would be a mutable, ever-changing tabulation of our aggregated top 50s, which we could go back to and change at any time. is there some sort of data aggregation service which could serve such a purpose?
― imago, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:45 (four years ago) link
but yeah a poll is easier haha
― imago, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:46 (four years ago) link
I suggest we all submit detailed ballots and blurbs, and then Eric just chooses the noms he likes best and reassigns the blurbs to totally different movies
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:50 (four years ago) link
Letterboxd API is in private beta but once itβs public an easy way to do a perpetual poll would be to have people make ranked lists and then scrape and tabulate those lists. Takes care of data quality issues.
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:52 (four years ago) link
A perpetual ranking would deflate the moment I think.If we want to avoid ties, weighting and longer ballots pretty essential given how few people will be voting compared with S&S
― Alba, Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:54 (four years ago) link
Somebody explain weighted ballots to me; I've carefully avoided all polls that had them up to now.
― Miami weisse (WmC), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:56 (four years ago) link
Unless that just means ranked ballots like most ILM ballot polls are.
― Miami weisse (WmC), Thursday, 27 February 2020 16:02 (four years ago) link
Yeah that's it
― imago, Thursday, 27 February 2020 16:04 (four years ago) link
eliminating all cinema before 1960 or 1970 seems to be a thing; not cool, if it mattered
β brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, February 27, 2020 6:59 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Whatever, my real list is above, starting with Bad Timing and ending with Domestic Violence.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 27 February 2020 18:35 (four years ago) link
they say he lived as he listed
― strangely hookworm but they manage ream shoegaze poetry (imago), Thursday, 27 February 2020 18:38 (four years ago) link
tough to pick, skewing a bit more subjective than objective in some cases. Not in order:
Black NarcissusRepo ManLight SleeperKiss Me DeadlyTwo Lane BlacktopFallen AngelsMemories of MurderTaxi DriverOnce Upon a Time In the WestSherlock Jr.
― omar little, Thursday, 27 February 2020 19:57 (four years ago) link
there are several dozen other films i could switch out but i like to rep for a few underrepped
― omar little, Thursday, 27 February 2020 19:58 (four years ago) link
hell yeah, Two Lane Blacktop is probably my favorite movie ever, but didn't make my list cause I arbitrarily limited it to title characters for some reason.
― Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Thursday, 27 February 2020 22:30 (four years ago) link