Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

"after four miserable defeats they are ready to bend"

Actually, rightly or wrongly, most didn't experience 2017 as one of those.

"There should be a socialist and a social democratic party. Trying to contain both has led to historical Labour strife."

This is wrong. What most 'socialists' are trying to achieve in practice is social democracy - eg: on the Scandinavian model that PT used to champion. I am on the far left by most UK standards but would call myself a social democrat. The real problem is that the Labour right, Blairites, et al, are not really keen on social democracy either. So she means 'There should be a social democratic party as well as a socially liberal neo-Thatcherite one'.

The assertion that Lab and LD should collaborate to get PR, I agree with.

Clive Lewis has said all this kind of thing before. Why didn't PT take any interest in him? Even here, she doesn't acknowledge it.

lol, the incorrigible Polly T at her bullshit again again. Caroline Flint in yesterday's ES was saying the next leader needs to lead from the centre and she used "virtue signalling". Nothing like a bit of unsolicited advice from the same ol' predictable fules.

Every country in Scandinavia has a Socialist and a Social Democratic party, btw. And a Green one, and probably a Socially Liberal one. It's great. You can really pinpoint the melts.

It's everyone but the Socialists, of course

As usual, Fred, you have no idea what you're talking about, you have no clue about the Labour Party and the Labour movement in the UK - its history, its significance, its importance, so shut the fuck up and go and irritate some Americans instead.

Had arguments about Polly Toynbee before, the idea that she's 'on our side' when she's a fake who was quite happy to be involved in an attempt to destroy the Labour movemement before.

Suzanne Moore also covering herself in glory today.

As ever.

I was reading that Jon Stone thread about the shittiness of New Labour and he mentioned Caroline Flint, in government, advocating for council houses to be taken off the unemployed. Because that, of course, is why you’re voting Labour.

it's amazing how many former Labour MP's only ever wanted to be in a reconstructed Tory party.

current MP's the same of course

"What was your motivation for becoming an MP Caroline?"

"I always had this burning desire to make poor ppl homeless so I joined the Labour Party of course"

Just dropping this thread here for a bit of much-needed context to Labour right criticism. Plus it’s bleak all laid out like that.

there’s been a reassessment of the Blair/Brown government on the Left in recent years: you hear more about its achievements than you used you. that’s good, but it’s also important not to forget that it regularly did things a Tory government would be criticised for (THREAD)

— Jon Stone (@joncstone) February 23, 2020

essential thread is that .. b b b but Sure Start centres!

also even John Major took a more tentative steady as she goes approach to PFI'ing the NHS than Blair because he didn't think the Tories could even away with it without a public backlash.

I was literally talking about Scandinavia. Ffs the level of xenophobic idiocy among the uk posters

Just the usual Fred Derangement Syndrome.

Dane Derangement

Daneragement.

It's all over the front page
You give me Dane rage

Denophobia

“Uk posters” when at least half of us aren’t from there

Don't sell yourself short, you've been in this country long enough to qualify.

You've been stewed in the ambient denophobia of old Albion for long enough

It’s true, I do love to be xenophobic against...*checks notes* foreigners discussing UK politics.

xxxp flagged post for gratuitous use of third-tier Britpop band lyrics

Pretty sure all of our Denophobic DNA has a large glug of dansk swilling around in it

Tbf Beowulf, the great Anglo-Saxon epic, begins with a line about 'the Spear-Danes in days gone by'.

Despite loving Brage he's still just a Dane in cage

No more tiers, enough is enough

Fun fact, Dan was the older brother of Angul, ancestor of the Anglo-Saxons. So you are all just whiny younger siblings. Admittedly except for the Celts.

The English are just self-hating Frenchified Scandos.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1200916423905828871/gMO-IZcb_400x400.jpg

itt Blatant Dan[e]ophobia

There was Shield Sheafson, scourge of many tribes,
a wrecker of mead-benches, rampaging among foes.
This terror of the hall-troops had come far.
A foundling to start with, he would flourish later on
as his powers waxed and his worth was proved.
In the end each clan on the outlying coasts
beyond the whale-road had to yield to him
and begin to pay tribute. That was one good king.

Not sure the Vikings ever made it to my neck of the woods but we know the Normans did. Source: very Norman surname on one side of the family.

Fwiw Dublin's Christ Church Cathedral was apparently built by a Norse King, Sigtrygg Silkbeard.

The Normans were just melt vikings

I think the first descriptions of Vikings were by Irish monks iirc

Lol I literally mean the very specific part of the country most of my family is from...I know the Vikings went there, lads.

Christchurch is great! You should visit before you go, pom.

I did, actually, and I concur! I was lucky enough to visit Ireland before ever setting foot in Britain (one of my wife's aunts married an Irishman).

I was literally talking about Scandinavia. Ffs the level of xenophobic idiocy among the uk posters

And you are literally the most irritating, thin-skinned, hypocritical fucker on ILX and that has nothing to do with you being Danish and is an opinion shared by ILXors of all nationalities and creeds and colours - congratulations, you've brought us all together.

It's perfectly simple, if someone wanders into a discussion on Danish politics with the express desire of winding the participants in the discussion with a lot of ill-informed garbage then you are perfectly entitled to tell them to get to fuck - I'd expect nothing less.

Do we really need this right now? At least wait for Fred to say something genuinely offensive before lashing back like that.

Actually Christchurch is in New Zealand

Now you can lash back

Technically correct. Also in England, Wales and the US, apparently.

it *was* in NZ until it fell over

all FPs greatfully acknowledged

Christ! Church!

Do we really need this right now? At least wait for Fred to say something genuinely offensive before lashing back like that.

Calling people xenophobic idiots not offensive enough for you?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_LYwntU8AA8SPA.jpg

wait, wrong Scandos, soz