Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

xp -- I'm not sure how you can say she's a less tempting target when the right-wing hate machine has already been targeting her, from multiple angles (the corporate stock market types are freaking out about how she will single-handedly destroy all wealth, the trumpian maga types are yelling pocahontas and, if they haven't quite cranked the misogyny into gear, have at least left it at a dull roar)

(to be clear I'm not saying anyone should shut up, not trying to dunk on anyone, etc.; that said, these are things that are happening, now, and have been for some time, which gives them an edge over speculation)

The idea that Sanders will yell at Trump voters in West Virginia and suddenly convert them into Democratic voters (or even supporters of Dem policy) is the most amusing fiction held by his followers. I've got a much younger Sanders-voting buddy, working for the Miami-Dade Progressive caucus, and he thinks Sanders + Trump voters got shit in common economically. And they do! But as story after story has pointed out since 2016 they're fucking racist, and they'll vote for any GOP policy that screws them over so long as the Mexican and the black welfare mother doesn't get benefits. I see this phenomenon all the time in South Florida.

Katherine otm

a less tempting target for the right wing hate machine

The woman every guy with a goatee and Oakleys calls Pocahontas by reflex?

xp -- I'm not sure how you can say she's a less tempting target when the right-wing hate machine has already been targeting her, from multiple angles (the corporate stock market types are freaking out about how she will single-handedly destroy all wealth, the trumpian maga types are yelling pocahontas and, if they haven't quite cranked the misogyny into gear, have at least left it at a dull roar)

katherine otmfm. We definitely haven't seen the full scale of the communist/jewish attacks that are coming for Bernie, but one of the reasons why Warren is losing and Bernie is winning is that the establishment has been able to make attacks stick on Warren and haven't been able to make those SAME attacks stick on Bernie. The partial answer may be misogyny, but to ignore Warren's track record in responding to crises in her campaign is *whatever*.

ftr I didn’t tell anybody to stfu

my theory with Trump's congrats Bernie thing and being measured is that he truly, intensely hates Bloomberg and wants to see him humiliated first, then he can deal with Bernie

that was before bloomberg was really a factor I'm pretty sure, it was around the "bernie said she shouldn't run" discourse

I'm as cranky and befuddled as anybody with the zealotry possessed by a lot of Bernie supporters, but that's a very distinct issue than whether (or by how much) the Dems are going to win in November. The data-free Eeyore act is really tiresome.

I find it tragic that in what should be one of the most winnable elections we've ever had we still couldn't just end up with a strong, safe and broadly appealing candidate so that we didn't have to sweat the thought of another 4 years of cheeto for the rest of the year. I had hoped warren would turn into that person and she didn't, partly because sanders ate her lunch but she scared off the centrists too, which is both on them and her. the remaining candidates were all just weak / also failed at becoming that person.

and before people quote 'strong, safe and broadly appealing candidate' and say 'actually,' - no, sanders is not safe, this is a science experiment.

Have you paid attention to Dem presidential primaries before?

cheeto

oh you're one of those

the “strong, safe and broadly appealing” ones are the ones who end up winning the popular vote and losing on technicalities

like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine) at 6:20 23 Feb 20

that was before bloomberg was really a factor I'm pretty sure, it was around the "bernie said she shouldn't run" discourse

oh sorry I meant what he said yesterday but he has been pretty gloves off the whole time

strong, safe and broadly appealing

Define "strong"

Define "safe"

Define "broadly appealing"

yeah i think a significant advantage is that Bernie has had a long time to establish his brand, he's very repetitive, and he avoids what he sees as distractions. 8 months is still a long time for attacks to start working, but it's harder to damage someone when people already have a basic idea of who they are and what they stand for.

xp -- if you're referring to clinton winning the popular vote in 2016 but not the electoral vote, she was more or less the exact opposite of "broadly appealing" (for reasons both justified and not)

She won the popular vote by nearly3 million votes, that seems pretty broadly appealing to me

Again, not a fan of replacing data (which there is a lot of) with narratives borrowed from pundits

She was also running against semi-sentient garbage, which leads a lot of people (like me) to vote for her even when she's completely unappealing.

I should never have to push the button for someone who thinks "America is ALREADY grebt" but nevertheless

Whether or not Hillary was "appealing" or "popular" is the kind of question that leads to a neverending and at this point highly predictable series of volleys that will never end in a point

yeah probably otm

brb going to the horrible ideas thread, thanks for the inspiration, man alive!

The real horrible thread idea is going full LARP and having an Obama-Clinton poll as if it was February 2008 to run with these appealing/popularity arguments.

I have to leave this thread for the night so I’m not arguing w/ people on my phone online instead of paying attention to people irl

Godspeed

thank you for your service

that is the best level of speed

xp

it's actually just behind a ten-speed. can't beat a ten-speed

Shakey bait

We’re not looking to keep Pelosi because there’s a progressive running against her who supports Medicare for All and the Green New Deal among other things. Check out @ShahidForChange at https://t.co/g293QvlKFB and vote by March 3rd. https://t.co/6G8MWfUzIP

— Susan Sarandon (@SusanSarandon) February 23, 2020

make Pramila Jayapal the speaker imo

She will be.

my theory with Trump's congrats Bernie thing and being measured is that he truly, intensely hates Bloomberg and wants to see him humiliated first, then he can deal with Bernie

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, February 23, 2020 6:14 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

My (possibly quite wrong but imagine if it wasn't) theory is that some part of his misfiring ape brain recognizes the very real possibility that Bernie stands a good chance of being president this time next year and it's never too soon to start the ass kissing.

As for Buttigieg -- it's like being sold a car, isn't it? Most people sense they're being sold a bill of goods, but a few, a certain group, leave thinking they made a great deal. In his case all those people are white.

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) February 23, 2020

This is many many xps but, about Warren,

What is the basis for thinking she would be a better administrator?

Overall impression I guess? I think she's a smarter system thinker than Sanders, whose ideas often seem sort of amorphous. She's immersed herself in how the financial system actually works e.g. I think she overdoes it with the plan for this and the plan for that, but I also think she has more specific, actionable ideas.

bernie is extremely repetitive and while some people see that as being ultra focused on his message and the grand idea, I sometimes see that as him just blowing off important concerns people have. Like when he campaigned for an anti-abortion dem candidate. I hold that grudge. I hold other grudges since the 2016 election. He likes to barter about shit I care about. It's careless.

I also think Warren is smarter, but in general, all around.

I think she would be a much better administrator. And given how important that's become, with both Obama and Trump basically doing any executive end-runs they can around Congress, it's a significant issue.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Sunday, February 23, 2020 4:13 PM (yesterday)

I never know what people mean, specifically, when they say things like this. What's an example of an important administrative responsibility of the president that you think Warren would be significantly better at?

Staffing the executive branch, regulatory agencies.

re Sanders and abortion

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/07/bernie-sanders-abortion-rights-record

his historical record on abortion wasn't what I was talking about. he's so willing to do the grumpy old man jazz hands when he just doesn't want to deal with or explain more recent "non-progressive" behaviour or comments.

lol @ old man jazz hands

Oh well, looks like the last 96 hours or so of campaign coverage based on unnamed sources may have been totally misleading according to new unnamed sources. Looking forward to the next set of unnamed sources completely clarifying the situation. pic.twitter.com/7H1DNNpC0y

— Ken Silverstein (@KenSilverstein1) February 23, 2020

bernie supporters shouldn't even worry about this stuff. defensiveness isn't the look. this campaign is not about bernie, it's about medicare for all, a bold approach to climate change, free public higher education, worker ownership of corporations, and the right to imagine the future in something other than dystopian terms.

Warren got the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau up and running, which is about as good an example of improving the administrative state as you could possibly hope for, I think

oh god who introduced morbs to that fake richard nixon guy?

fake nixon has always been with morbs

Epstein

Fake Nixon has pretty good insights imo

I hate the way he writes his tweets, the phony baloney jaded insider political thriller vibe, like some dork at a computer imagining he's a character played by Hal Holbrook telling the main character how things "really work in this town, kid"

nah, he imitates Nixon's crabbed prose style except with occasionally mordant insights