bojo is king, brexit is on, stuff is fvcked, tomorrow starts here -- new govt new thread new battle

state of these cnuts

In 2017 the EU showed on their own slide that a Canada type FTA was the only available relationship for the UK. Now they say it’s not on offer after all. @MichelBarnier what’s changed? pic.twitter.com/ve8zeAqbSZ

— No.10 Press Office (@Number10press) February 18, 2020

how many points do i need to get out?

you can check out any time you like but you can never leave iirc

Jon Trickett has a piece in Tribune that addresses the democratic deficit. (Could have done without the mention of Mélenchon though).

Fucking tell the fascist, Nadia

This, from a forty-something has-been, is pure bitterness because people told his red-brown alliance where to get off.

Next stop, irrelevance. https://t.co/nYSDEv52BO

— Nadia Whittome MP (@NadiaWhittomeMP) February 18, 2020

I'm a superforecaster myself, I reckon this new points system is going to cause cataclysmic recruitment crisises in the agricultural, care, manufacturing, foodservice sectors. Great work lads.

You'll likely see more use of seasonal worker schemes like this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48820573

Which generally means the work gets done but the people doing it have few / no rights.

what is the impetus to come here to work with a beating stick and no carrot set-up?

what is the impetus to come here to work with a beating stick and no carrot set-up?

Tons of people already come here to work in a context where they have no real rights - terrible pay by UK standards is still seen as desirable in other places

Trebles all round!

on radio they said that temp farmworkers were exempt (whilst pointing out the careworkers aren't and how fucked that is)

minister who was on was keen on pointing out how much they'd reduced the requirements recently. so they now have a points system that doesn't keep as many people out... (so why bother?)

Tons of people already come here to work in a context where they have no real rights - terrible pay by UK standards is still seen as desirable in other places

Bingo. Under such conditions, might as well stretch not-slavery to its near-breaking point.

Which I'm sure is the intention.

Well, Brexit does mean Brexit after all.

it's sad some of these jobs especially like in the agricultural/care sector are not given more respect and pay because they much more essential than say financial services or hypocritical fucking melt MP's claiming their TV licenses on expenses.

tbf the ultimate aim is to have British people working in near slavery, so get out yer Union Jacks and start waving them.

yeah we're heading full-tilt for an american-style at-will-employment corporate hellscape, strap in folks because if you hurt yourself your medical bills are gonna be astronomical

Insofar as 'Murican freedom is the very Platonic image of freedom it follows that the UK must become as 'Murican as possible in order to fully free itself from the EU's shackles.

The government does still plan to add an overall cap if the points-based system doesn't cut immigration (as, I understand, the Australian system doesn't).

A bullish Whitehall source told the Daily Mail: “Businesses are going to have to invest in workforces. There is an unemployment pool in the U.K. If they are not able to attract people they are going to have to look at automation or improve conditions.”

I think there's a Cyberman episode of Doctor Who on this weekend, they might pick up a few tips.

The Seasonal Workers Scheme pilot is being increased from 2,500 to 10,000.

https://www.farminguk.com/news/seasonal-workers-pilot-expanded-fourfold-following-labour-concerns_55016.html

This is from 2016 btw:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/26/one-five-say-uk-should-not-admit-single-migrant-tu

Now that Britain has voted to leave the EU, the government is going to have to develop a new immigration policy. For many – including new Prime Minister Theresa May – the message of the referendum result was that immigration levels will have to come down drastically.

A new YouGov survey confirms the extent of this message, showing that an overwhelming majority of the public – 70% of people – think that immigration into Britain has been too high over the last ten years. Close to half (44%) say it has been "much too high". The government is going to face a backlash if it is not able to design an immigration system that is popular with the public.

However, the frank preferences on what kind of immigrants the public would like to see more of or less of will be difficult to translate into government policy.

There is a strong desire for a reduction in migrants from Eastern Europe, Africa, the Middle East and South Asia. At least one in five people say that the UK should not admit a single migrant from Turkey, Romania, Nigeria, Egypt or Pakistan.

The hostility to certain countries reflects both cultural and economic concerns. Of the countries listed, Britons are most happy with migration from advanced economies, particularly those with English-speaking populations. And when looking at what factors should determine whether or not a migrant is allowed to enter the UK, the results show a public that is keen to ensure their jobs and safety are not disrupted.

In other news, pretty shit that none of the labour leadership candidates are onboard for decriminalization of drugs (Starmer of all ppl came closest)? I know it's not top of the agenda, like.

Best to bring the pension age down to 50 then. Enjoy retirement till your 55-60 years old and then die a horrible slow death because there's no-one to take care of you. xp

trapped in a corporate hellscape and not even able to get out of our gourds on heroic doses of experimental research chemicals without breaking the law, truly the worst of all worlds

xxp
a bit of slithery lawyering from the melts running boy! they are all bad though even RLB wouldn't give an unequivocal Yes to abolishing the Saxe-Psioborgs

Yeah the drugs thing was pretty depressing. On the one hand it isn't an issue of much importance, on the other hand it's a handy signal that you're a fucking cop.

Yeah, but look at how Canada fell apart after legalizing weed. Harrowing stuff.

Xpost Not sure the British govt really understands the Australian immigration system it is so desperate to copy. Australia has one of the highest immigration rates in the world, about double that of the UK, and around 30% of the resident population was born overseas.

Xpost Not sure the British govt really understands the Australian immigration system it is so desperate to copy. Australia has one of the highest immigration rates in the world, about double that of the UK, and around 30% of the resident population was born overseas.

― Zelda Zonk, Wednesday, February 19, 2020 12:44 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Otm. Evoking "Australian immigration system" is dog-whistling, it seems to stand for "much stricter immigration by a fellow developed nation that actually works!", the way it's being tossed around. Which is wrong on so many levels, but it's about the message, not the policies amirite? It's being used this way by the right all over Western-Europe, too.

let's not forget that Australia has an entire Gulag Archipelago of internment camps, a policy Brexit Britian can surely get behind

finally a use for those overlooked and under-utlisied islands such as Lundy, Rockall, St Kilda and Ireland

You already tried that with your Scots - some bewigged Stephen Pinker on hand to say "well, etymologically speaking..."

The Australian system isn't designed to cut immigration, it's designed to control it. You want more nurses? Remove the barriers to nurses. You want to populate Alice Springs? Tell people they need fewer points to move there, rather than Sydney, etc.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERIwPY9WsAAncHs?format=jpg&name=900x900

This is how they lost the referendum

Also yeah "Australia-style" means "Rigorous but actually racist"

No the birds are flying backwards, you see.

Xpost Aussies luv to intern refugees. That masks the fact that the economy is actually propped up by high levels of immigration

‘Australian-style’ is branding more than anything else. We already have a points based system, this is mostly just extending it to EU people.

Unsurprisingly, a lot of Brits like the idea of an Australian system a lot less when they’re actually trying to move there.

Full solidarity for the Greeks who’ve got “reclaiming the Elgin marbles” into the trade talks btw.

Australia = far-away country famously populated by ruddy-faced white people who speak English. "Points system" = something that sounds modern and impressive to people who know nothing about how immigration works but feel there are too many forrins around.

I hate everything about this, but also think it will likely be slightly more pragmatic than anything Theresa May would have allowed, she is still the worst politician of my lifetime.

xp in a very real sense, brexit britain has lost etc

In 2009 I was teaching EFL at a place in London, most of the students were on a visa where you did an English course for a month and were then given a work placement - they were from soon-to-join-the EU places like Romania and Bulgaria, and also Thailand, Colombia, Brasil. Loads of problems with this system, for example they would send actual doctors off to do picking and packing in warehouses in Cumbria, but T May cancelled the whole thing with no replacement at all, fuck her forever.

Full solidarity for the Greeks who’ve got “reclaiming the Elgin marbles” into the trade talks btw.

Would love for the Chinese to say they need reparations before signing any trade deal to compensate for the British trying to destroy their economy and society by trafficking opium in the 19th century. India making the UK grovel would be even funnier though.

as long as they make us buy their opium and cotton goods i'm cool

Loads of problems with this system, for example they would send actual doctors off to do picking and packing in warehouses in Cumbria

Interesting this as I was recently trying to research more this story from around the same time (and how it led to a trickle of kneejerk protests in the following years from Johnson, Farage and the other usual suspects about NHS staff with insufficient English

Yes, historically non-EU healthcare workers have required English tests, EU ones haven't.

fanks tracer, I appreciate the appreciation. gyac I am not qualified to dispense advice but I don't think only certain types of ppl are suited to having more control and say in what's going on in their lives. looking away is always an option, but there are different ways of getting more involved, it's not just canvassing. in part I think democratising structures is a rejection of the archetype of the activist, who is really just the shadow version of the professional politician. The Movement, as much as it exists, is towards a gradual collective increase in responsibility and sense of ownership imo.

making space for yourself (& others) in orgs, systems, and indeed, life in general, is mb the hardest thing, but ime every new sort of activity related to what I'll broadly call organising seems initially intimidating and awkward and then turns out to be.... fun? or at least invigorating. as I said I wld struggle to offer prescriptive advice beyond being flexible, attentive/ruthlessly opportunistic & sensitive to the shifting variances in personal/local/psychological circs. I am coming from a place of fairly extreme pessimist realism so disappointment and failure seem more like features than bugs, and entering into things w/ a mixture of low expectations and curiosity/openness/inexplicable enthusiasm is v useful if you can pull it off.

I wld love some union chat. there are definitely some more radical modern small unions (independent workers union - https://iwgb.org.uk/ - and united voices of the world - https://www.uvwunion.org.uk/ - have had success doing good things recently), but I've struggled w/ my complacent dinosaur union. my branch seem to actively put reps off doing too much, but even so you meet ppl and get in the loop, and the experience is good and useful if only in an 'assessing the scale of the problem' way. my rule of thumb ranking for the big general ones is: unite (at least semi-democratic) > unison (does have a leftist faction that might get in charge post-prentis) > gmb (lots of blue labour types) > usdaw (lovers of tesco management). PCS is left-wing but has apparently been absolutely smashed by tory govt, RMT, FBU, UCU all doing quite well I think.

I do enjoy labour party biz, esp during the election campaign, as well as following ongoing local issues & campaigns esp where there are consultations and forms that can be filled in and so on (on transport, homelessness, environment, planning, refugees, policing etc.). a lot of the time v few ppl express any interest so Putting Forward An Opinion is fairly significant.

is there any fairly wealthy country itw that's done a good job, or even sincerely tried to cut immigration? this is why matthew goodwin types, or indeed anyone raising the Legitimate Immigration Concerns feel like such bad faith actors - regardless of what the public think, cutting numbers doesn't seem to be on the table. across the world immigration is used as a way to expanding state & capital control, from migrant south asian construction workers in the gulf states dying in unsafe working conditions, to ethiopian domestic servants being effectively imprisoned and abused the households they work for in lebanon, to india making second-class citizens of millions of muslims by using concern about illegal immigration.

Kind of embarrassed to say it cos you put my own self-negation in perspective but I've really enjoyed your contributions on here and other political threads ogmor, you're inspiring and a model poster tbh.

^ cosign, even when we happen to disagree.