Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

also for whatever reason rich people were WAY more shook by her than bernie

I can attest to this anecdotally. I was at a dinner with my boss and his friends and they went OFF about how "crazy" Warren was and how scared they were of her. These are basically moderate dem voters, but rich ones, and it was kind of shocking to me to hear how genuinely worried they were about her becoming president.

smart women scare the shit out of a lot of people

my wife had a bunch of neighbors over last week and she heard the same thing, Bernie is too much of a "socialist", whatever that means. "I don't wanna pay for other people's stuff"

these people aren't rich per se but they're doing pretty well

theyre definitely already paying for “other people’s stuff”—it’s just the people who are already richer than god

Lloyd Blankfein “hates” socialism

Sanders has very clear end goals, many of which are in place in other countries, and it is pretty simple to see how they could be achieved (raise taxes on those who can afford it, spend less on wars, in general). Probably clearer than any other candidate's, actually. It's the 'figuring out the details' part I'm wondering about, since the details seem very subject to factors outside the candidate's control, as man alive notes. That said, comparing their websites, I'm not really seeing how e.g. this is more detailed than this.

Also, there are very widely-used democratic systems where the governing cabinet does have much more direct control over the details of policy implementation. Admittedly, these are often constitutional monarchies.

bunch of xps

the theory (which ended up being only a theory) was that warren was gonna appeal to both the progressive wing and the clintonites, and I think the powers that be are a lot more concerned about the clintonites permanently shifting to the left than they are about a temporary factional coup.

It’s totally possible that sanders ends up converting the rest of the party over time as trump has, but with warren that was more obviously the goal - she was the bridge candidate.

My 14-year-old is worried that Sanders isn't electable

One of my most left-wing friends is now all in for Bloomberg because he thinks he's the one who can beat Trump

I have other left-wing friends who say they'll sit it out if it's Bloomberg-Trump

My wife thinks America won't vote for a woman

All the people in these anecdotes are Jewish FWIW

the theory (which ended up being only a theory) was that warren was gonna appeal to both the progressive wing and the clintonites

I think her support authentically is a pretty good mix of these, just not enough of each.

Is your 14-yo Tom Friedman?

(sorry, that's over the line)

srsly read today's Friedman column for bellylaughs

theyre definitely already paying for “other people’s stuff”—it’s just the people who are already richer than god

yea I push back on this every chance I get. I hate the idiotic talking point that this election is gonna be about "capitalism vs. socialism". like there's a switch you can flip. we just gave out like $1,000,000,000+ to farmers because Trump's dumbass trade war fucked them over. billionaires and corporations just got one of the biggest tax windfalls in history. funded by your paychecks. but you bring up student loan forgiveness and they're like, "whoa that's way too far, there are consequences for your actions don't ya know"

that poll showing Bloomberg beating Trump by 9 is baffling to me, who are these people going in for Bloomberg who wouldn't support the other candidates? is there really a subsection of voters who are like, "I'll just vote for the richest guy"???

the fact that the democratic party can't--or won't--articulate this is enraging

xpost

it seems Sanders' plan for the general is "corporate socialism vs democratic socialism"

the fact that the democratic party can't--or won't--articulate this is enraging

doing that would empty the wine caves

now the Beltway consensus rests on Sanders' inability to 'break his ceiling.'

I would like to ask some of these 'I don't wanna pay for other people's stuff!'-ers how they feel about laboring at a deflated wage to pay for their CEO's fifth yacht.

doing that would empty the wine caves

i'm inclined to say it's weird that they wouldn't just say it anyway. just like the GOP did to the evangelical rubes for 40 years...

but hell, maybe they're smarter than we give them credit for. the rubes eventually took over the GOP.

It's the 'figuring out the details' part I'm wondering about, since the details seem very subject to factors outside the candidate's control, as man alive notes. That said, comparing their websites, I'm not really seeing how e.g. this is more detailed than this.

which is to say positioning oneself as the competent/technocratic/wonky/intellectual candidate (e.g. by talking a lot about numbers that will never be realized or perhaps by speaking Norwegian well enough to read a book but not well enough to ever use it in negotiations with the Norwegian PM) often seems to me to be itself about a kind of ideological branding as anything else.

warren didn't put on some glasses and position herself as a 'wonky politician' for branding purposes. she was an acclaimed academic who happened to get into politics.

ice-cold rick perry shade

shall I link to that NRO column

That thing the other day where Warren said she'd "lead the parade" if someone else adopted her policy positions -- that is a humane thing to do. It is not a political thing.

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) February 12, 2020

which is to say positioning oneself as the competent/technocratic/wonky/intellectual candidate (e.g. by talking a lot about numbers that will never be realized or perhaps by speaking Norwegian well enough to read a book but not well enough to ever use it in negotiations with the Norwegian PM) often seems to me to be itself about a kind of ideological branding as anything else.

― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 15:43 (twenty-five minutes ago) link

OTM -- it signals that you're "one of the smart kids" and therefore appeals to people whose identities are wrapped up in being "one of the smart kids."

she’s gonna endorse the klob, ensuring that the bros have another good betrayal narrative to work with

xp

i hope that fantasy works out well in yr dreamlife

have to say, of all the female candidates we initially had, I did not expect Klobuchar to be the last one standing.

she's the Pet Shop Boys candidate

"being boring"

Bernie 2020: I love you, you pay my rent

Klobuchar is an excellent avatar for the party of “no, we can’t”

since the media treats politics as sports now anyway, I think maybe you could say Warren simply peaked too early.

Klobuchar did well in the debate. I said so. I have some understanding of what the press eat with spoons. She's also inconsistent, boring, and third place.

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) February 12, 2020

Are there any people who've moved from Warren to Sanders here? If so why?

Why fuck around, I asked myself

my primary vote is strategic and I want the most viable lefty candidate to get the nomination. So in all likelihood that means Bernie, at this point.

I went from soft-Warren to firm-Sanders because she got timid on M4A.

I didn't know what M4a was, so i googled. And it's a file extension? :P

M4A = medicare for all = the most important policy meme to me of the moment.

hmm yeah that’s the spot

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/482607-klobuchar-we-need-to-build-a-big-tent-for-anti-abortion-democrats

Antiabortion Democrats can vote for a Republican, eat shit

Including you morbs.

wha?

I am 100% fine with str8 ppl keeping reproduction to a minimum

Misremembering a comment or two I guess, also how dare I imply you’re “a Democrat” right

ie i am neither antiabortion OR a Democrat

tho if i had to choose one...

lol xp

oh i have 'evolved' since i started posing here

after all i usta be a Catholic who believed we had souls

Meanwhile in Nevada:

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders would “end Culinary Healthcare” if elected president, according to a new one-pager the politically powerful Culinary Union is posting back of house on the Las Vegas Strip.

The new flyer, a copy of which was obtained by The Nevada Independent, compares the positions on health care, “good jobs” and immigration of six Democratic presidential hopefuls who have come to the union’s headquarters over the last two months to court its members. But the primary difference outlined in the document, which is being distributed in both English and Spanish, is in the candidates’ positions on health care, taking particular aim at the Vermont senator over his Medicare-for-all policy, which would establish a single-payer, government run health insurance system.

The flyer says Sanders, if elected president, would “end Culinary Healthcare,” “require ‘Medicare For All,’” and “lower drug prices.” The language it uses to describe the position of Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who also supports Medicare for all after a transition period, is much gentler: “‘Medicare for All,’” “replace Culinary Healthcare after 3-year transition or at end of collective bargaining agreements,” and “lower drug prices.”

An interesting thread from Rachel Bitecofer, the "there are no swing voters" lady:

Here is the basic fact of where Sanders is in the race. He has won NH by a narrow 2pts, can claim a partial (total vote) win in IA primarily due to no results being reported. These were in 2 overwhelmingly white states. IOW: these were weaker than expected performances. HOWEVER,

— Rachel "The Doc" Bitecofer 📈🔭🍌 (@RachelBitecofer) February 12, 2020

the ever-glorious commenters

I like to think that's the only tweet, with no followups, as a tribute to this:

STEPHEN A: Skip I want to ADDRESS this issue.
[BAYLESS nods]
You KNOW I am sensitive to the Holocaust
BAYLESS: Absolutely
STEPHEN A: BUT!

— Yakuza boss rewatching doraemon (@Hegelbon) July 25, 2014