Irish politics discussion thread

id be open to be talked around on FF but i dont think we share a view on how far right FG are

or, again, maybe its in that zone above where "what is the centre" is a three or four headed question, idk

FG not as far right as the Tories - lacking the ethno nationalism - but their economic policies are fucking awful and their open disdain for the poor and homeless is disgraceful. That matters.

A starting point that merits consideration: the range of ideological attitudes and policies that may be credibly labelled 'centrist' varies from country to country.

yep i think i might have built that in above tbfttp

exit poll in ten secs

1st pref

FG 22.4
Sf 22.3
ff 22.2
green 7.9
lab 4.6

lollllllz

Lol what the fuck

Let’s see the second prefs

FIRST PREFS LOL

Fine Gael 22.4%
Sinn Féin 22.3%
Fianna Fáil 22.2%
Green Party 7.9%
Labour Party 4.6%
Soc Democrats 3.4%
Solidarity-PBP 2.8%
Margin of error:
+/-1.3%

— RTÉ News (@rtenews) February 8, 2020

So assuming the boys join again to keep SF out.. SF are the official opposition?

obv transfers will cause havoc

vote mgmt gonna be huge, and we know sf didnt run enough candidates to really see the benefit

and then formation of an actual govt

shared govt between fg/ff a big jump from the silent partner arrangement, but......?

all xp, yeah, but......they were that really anyway?

I mean its basically down to whether fg will play the bottom dog in a conf/supply or whether it will actually be a coalition

Surely any government formed isn’t going to be stable?

SF must be kicking themselves they didn’t run more candidates.

Leo will resign right?

sf 31.8 youth vote
fg 15.5
green 14.4
ff 13.6

xp again!

really need to see how transfers turn into seats, its quite possible that ff/fg return in on or another setup and could be quite stable...

in that instance, and seeing as those first pref results arent actually as bad as polling, leo would maybe try to brave it out for a while

noonan has already shot across his bows mind

https://i.postimg.cc/xThRtGFN/C0-EF66-E8-33-B7-4678-998-B-A379-C434-C61-F.jpg

its v much a continuation of ff/fg scrambling to hold against an ongoing major change in voting habits, a healthy thing.

xp otm

labour, green, sd will be transfer friendly, out of the big three youd have to think ff most transfer friendly

god its so much better than other systems this, the craic will be fuckin ninety for the week after this

Can’t wait for my constituency to finish counting last as per fucking usual

Surely any government formed isn’t going to be stable?

SF must be kicking themselves they didn’t run more candidates.

― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:06 (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

two notes as first reaction from rte/david himself

i. keep them posters up folks, we'll be back soon

ii. yes, but ff/fg ran too many. theyll be ating each other out there within the parties.

dying at this, country vmic

LOL. RTÉ news just said smallest voter turnout in the country so far is Malin Head. Locals said they’d get to it later as there was a big dinner dance last night and the whole place is bollixed today. Never change Dún na nGall 🤣🤣🤣 #Togh2020

— MCDAID (@MCDAID) February 8, 2020

mad hoors hi

Big dinner dance in fairness tho

Would love to see them lose badly

FG's @martinheydonfg: “According to this poll, we are the biggest party going into count day. We started it according to one poll 12 points behind Fianna Fáil. We are in the hunt in every constituency for seats and are determined to come out of this election as largest party.

— Richard Chambers (@newschambers) February 8, 2020

pic.twitter.com/usCRA9aMDm

— No Context Eamon Dunphy (@NoContextDunphy) February 8, 2020

Shane Ross out on his ear is it? FG not doing well in the west? You love to see it.

jesus the first prefs so far are way out from the exit polls

sf romping

may elect a far higher number of seats than expected

anything else is too early, transfers are gonna be huge

first word is that sf transfers are not going as left as wouldve been expected, gonna get filthy

ff/fg decision on next gov just got loaded, because if we have to go again any time soon (or after a bad term like fg just managed) there seems little doubt that sf would run another 20 seats and lead the dail

FF were branded leftist in a red scare in the 1930s -- but I'm not too sure they have lived up to that since. I would probably call them centre-right with strong historic elements of populism and clientelism. Relations with the church are another historical factor somewhat distinct to Ireland, eg as against UK in the same period.

https://www.lookleftonline.org/2015/04/better-dead-than-red/

The 1932 election campaign had been ruthless, with the outgoing government attempting to label the ascending Fianna Fáil as communistic. On the eve of polling, Cumann na nGaedheal went as far as to take out a front-page advertisement in The Irish Times which warned the public that “The gunmen are voting for Fianna Fáil. The Communists are voting for Fianna Fáil.”

Despite Cumann na nGaedheal claiming he was some sort of communist, the Fianna Fáil leader Éamon de Valera shared the view that communism was a poor fit for the Irish nation, remarking in 1931, before his party’s ascent to power, that “I doubt there is any country in the world that presents such an unfruitful field for Communism as our country. The individualistic tendencies of our people are against it; the system of land tenure – ‘peasant proprietorship’ – is against it, our Catholic faith is against it.”

what is the effect of the clientelism and the populism, tho, as regards the spectrum?

SF currently ahead on 1st prefs in Laois-Offaly. That’s new.

1st prefs with 36% of boxes open

Latest #LaoisOffaly tally (36% open):
- Stanley (SF) 20%
- Cowen (FF) 14.5%
- Ormond (FF) 11.8%
- Nolan 10.9%
- Flanagan (FG) 8.7%
- Corcoran (FG) 8.3%
- Fleming (FF) 7.3%
- Leahy 6.8%
- Hackett (GP) 4.5% https://t.co/NiaHHYwEjG

— Maria Delaney (@mhdelaney) February 9, 2020

theres no doubt that the first prefs are a landslide vs expectations and exit poll

I'm sure I've said it before but I've never been sure what the difference is between FG and FF as, to an outsider, they very much look like two cheeks of the same arse.

patrician vs clientelism is shorthand

SF going to top the poll in Dublin Bay North. They were 6th last time!

lads ill give us this

it never devolves into accusations that all rats are gay or wtf else

This seems important!

its huge

but the fun is that, after the initial exit poll, its shifting chaos for several days, in this case maybe weeks, as the counts, transfers, seats, and possible coalitions become apparent and then real

historic elections, these past few.

Varadkar can just brush SF aside with a "sorry, we don't like you", and that's that?

no true English voter would put up with weeks of fucking about while you try to find a government that accurately represents the oh wait

Varadkar can just brush SF aside with a "sorry, we don't like you", and that's that?

― Le Bateau Ivre

sure, why not?

not a trite dismissal, btw, but- notwithstanding that everything before the final seat counts are known is posturing - thats the official FG party position, they are quite significantly opposed on major issues of approach and priority, leo will have an eye on fg core vote at this stage, etc etc etc

lets not even, ok lets

gyac, can you cover the civil war politics issues of FG/SF, i reckon you may have a better take than i

xp to NV, im seeing a lot of "theres an onus on all major parties to enter into a broad alliance of..." etc etc

but any such govt would imo please nobody, really.

im not sure that FF/SF have any major ideological stumbling blocks if they can carve up the ministries and stay out of each others way besides

mainly because FF dont have an ideology, i guess

proportional governments don't feel too different to first past the post in that sense, you've still got to form a "coalition" that can get yr business done. as an outsider the FF/SF thing seems near inevitable at this stage, and i would imagine SF will be happy to let the big boys do most of the driving as long as they can use the opportunity in government to showboat/make themselves more credible/grind their usual axes take your pick

xp Christ, what gave you that impression? I’ll write something after dinner but what should I cover

https://m.independent.ie/incoming/varadkar-says-fine-gael-coalition-with-sinn-fein-is-not-an-option-and-would-be-like-a-forced-marriage-38939826.html

xp the relish with which you go at the blueshirts!

Just checking the seat figures for the first time in a while and wow SF have a lot of enthusiasm.

xp it’s probably my residual ancestral guilt? But basically tl;dr why won’t they govern together?