Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

when will yang drop out?
when will steyer drop out?
how the fuck does gabbard have 7% support in NH?

tbf Pete's campaign direction is "never ever admit you were wrong"

alfred can u really abide such nostalgia for machine days from internet richard nixon?

if the fact an organizer was about to read his script live on the air with CNN and the picture of a caucus paper spreadsheet that had a clearly labeled PIN code at the top are indicators, they gave people no training on security

― caucus fricked iowa account (mh), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 1:03 PM (four minutes ago)

training people on security unfortunately does not guarantee that they won't do blatantly stupid things immediately afterwards

What do you mean, 16 year olds drive defensively all the time

re: the app

jfc. I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but it seems like the evidence is pretty overwhelming that election security is basically non-existent, and that there are ways in which people could mess with election results without requiring a ton of resources, and potentially turn elections if they had a ton of resources. I feel like we are all just trying to ignore it in part because if there have already been fraudulent elections in the past, then we are in over our heads already.

I really hope there is a full accounting of what the hell went on in Iowa, and quickly! I understand they need to get the count done ASAP and maybe there are unpatched holes in their system that they wouldn't want to reveal, but man, this is weak.

Why do you guys think it is that election security stories are never taken seriously? Is it just that the incumbents figure they were the beneficiaries of any shenanigans so they have no incentive to look into them?

Like wouldn't this stuff be top priority for our three-letter agencies?

this wasn't an election, it was a caucus

and US history is littered with fraudulent elections

Does NH have like a higher proportion of men than most states or something? It always seems to have this intense Weird Dude Energy w/r/t political shit

like one of the reasons this is such a clusterfuck is because Iowa's caucus system is literally like several hundred games of Red Rover played by confused old white people, this doesn't really have anything to do with fraud as much as it does just being the nature of a badly antiquated system that involves people grouping themselves together in a room rather than using ACTUAL FUCKING BALLOTS

xp

apps like this don't do anything by themselves. this thing has to have sent results to a service somewhere which would then accept the payload and do whatever with it. This isn't an app that was released in the apple store or google play, so it's unlikely anyone did anything TO THE APP. It's possible someone was able to determine where the server is that accepted the information and could interfere with things that way, and if so that's an indictment on the security team who built this. But it could just as easily be an issue of: apps didn't all send info to the servers because their connections dropped, or something.

they should just use goddamn ballots like every other proper election. problem solved.

I generally think David Klion is smart and sensible, but I'm not sure what he's trying to do with this conspiracy line. I think it's possible to separate out concern about how the party does business (specifically, how potential biases might be shaped by the awarding of contracts and the appointment of officials) from the technological and logistical mishaps that occurred. Just because those biases may exist does not mean they played a direct role in whatever happened last night.

https://theoutline.com/post/8636/acronym-shadow-most-hated-company-in-politics

they should just use goddamn ballots like every other proper election. problem solved.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 21:20 (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

if you mean paper ballots, i agree with you.

You all do realize that the Iowa Democratic party has a paper trail from which the correct results may be tabulated, don't you? So this furor over the app mainly applies to the delay in making those results public, which is sort of crappy, but it would be far worse to announce wrong results then have to walk them back after the media has moved on to the next story.

xps we need Oregon style vote-by-mail for everyone, ASAP

we already died of dysentery

the paper ballots were mildly confusing but they exist and have been collected. the entire head count and alignment just just means some of the ballots have two things to count

the two ways precincts reported the counts to the HQ is what was fucked up. because the magical app was going to make it easier, they had fewer people sitting there to answer the phones to collect totals — and the fact there were two sets of totals made calls longer

the app accepted the data correctly, then incorrectly showed what was submitted on the precinct user screens. so even the precincts that used the app felt they needed to call in

a bunch of precincts gave up on waiting on the phone and by the time state HQ had more people in the building — gathered from insiders that had worked precincts — they weren’t able to reach precincts because people weren’t answering at 1am

the app may have been faulty in other ways, this is the one way I’ve heard about

aimless otm i kept wondering why someone didnt just step the fuck up early and say ‘no results til cob tomorrow, we need tk tabulate this with a fucking abacus, but while v embarassing we’re good.’ Is this what they actually did and the news and butti just kept play acting?

Hunt3r, mostly, yes. A lot of cross-checking needed to be done but indications are that the precincts that did use the app served up data that the Buttigieg campaign may even subscribe to

because Shadow Inc seemingly has two business models, and one of them is a *second app* that reports the results to subscribers before/outside of the state apparatus

wooo that’s bullshit biz practice, thx

that hasn’t been confirmed but seems to be the case, so don’t quote me on it

official word is “several campaigns tracked caucuses on their own” but it’s make sense that a technocrat campaign like Buttigieg’s would see an independent system as pure inefficiency if they could simply buy the official source’s stats

We don't need proof of, or belief in, a "conspiracy," the *appearance* of this shit is something that shouldn't come to pass (along with the incompetence).

everything is a conspiracy if you squint hard enough, though

i finally agree with morbs a million % yay

I was in Iowa and watched countless volunteers pour their hearts and souls into the campaigns. The app that failed is by a for-profit tech company founded by "veterans" of the 2016 Clinton campaign. Nothing will get fixed till these people stop failing up. https://t.co/nMXWYUHGD9

— zeynep tufekci (@zeynep) February 4, 2020

Iowa Dem Chair looks like a Seth Rogen character.

Whoa they learned lessons in the future... no wonder those brilliant fucks got the contract 🤔

CNN notwithstanding idea that people complaining about this are impatient babies is ... weird. If they said the results would be out in a week and then released them in a week it would have been fine. They didn’t. They said the results would be out in a couple of hours, and then total chaos. Now there’s space for people inclined to distrust institutions, and people in whose interest that is (like Lindsay graham this morning), to fill in the blanks, depress turnout, and fill the news with distracting chum. It’s a big deal! It’s not impatience!

thread title proven wrong btw

Pete and his shaaaaa-doe...

Me going to bed without Iowa results pic.twitter.com/0CpP2kM65g

— Javier Panzar 🦅 (@jpanzar) February 4, 2020

Steve Kornacki is going ape shit

New: Iowa Dem Party will release 62% of results from all 99 precincts, says Dem Party Chair Troy Price.

— Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) February 4, 2020

Buttigieg with a narrow lead with 62% reporting on SDEs
Buttigieg 26.9
Sanders 25.1
Warren 18
Biden 15
Doubt that's enough for a network projection.
Don't know much about whether it's representative, so be cautious

— Nate Cohn (@Nate_Cohn) February 4, 2020

guess people took his advice on voting for someone else

Look I know Trump is pretty awful but I am pretty sure he isn't able to squeeze four extra years of being awful into the next nine months

why not, he's squeezed 16 into three years already


fbclid=IwAR1n827iirHjuhaviSwUO0gvcY_ZrWf3s4qKls2YhozQ4ADp6IdXoMGkNmQ

hey while we're stamping out conspiracy theory fires ITT, how about let's not try and monetise fellow posters on behalf of a company that's committing real actual election fraud every day?


fwiw my coworker made an excellent point that we really need a federally funded nonpartisan election agency that can provide infrastructure and services to any sort of election across the country

he was looking at it from a computer and operational security perspective, but I think it logistically makes sense

be careful, something like this radical proposal could lead to 100% voter enfranchisement or similar

my new proposal for politics is that you're only allowed to go from private sector to politics exactly once

stipulation: you have to live in public housing forever if you leave politics

we need Oregon style vote-by-mail for everyone, ASAP

tempted to FP for racism but can't in full conscience, given the qualifier

I honestly believe that having the option to go to a polling place for a barbecue and cake stall, on a sunny Saturday morning, as well as voting by mail or voting early, drives both actual turnout and voter engagement.

thread title proven wrong btw

irl giggle

what's up w/ WaPo's numbers?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/election-results/iowa/

I honestly believe that having the option to go to a polling place for a barbecue and cake stall, on a sunny Saturday morning, as well as voting by mail or voting early, drives both actual turnout and voter engagement.

OK as long as it's either/or I can get w/this :)

tempted to FP for racism but can't in full conscience, given the qualifier

I honestly believe that having the option to go to a polling place for a barbecue and cake stall, on a sunny Saturday morning, as well as voting by mail or voting early, drives both actual turnout and voter engagement.

xp

hmm, wow that sounds good, but is it really as good as a bunch of people wandering around a gym for several hours (excluding those who don't have the time to hang out in a gym for several hours on a weeknight, and discriminating against those who are introverted/don't like hanging out with weirdo strangers for hours) while some bald guy with glasses and a goatee (because it's always a bald guy with glasses and a goatee) individually counts every vote by pointing at people and then shouting out the results to another bald guy with glasses and a goatee at the front of the room by a whiteboard?

It is a big deal, right? It would be insane if there's any caucases in 2024

How about we replace caucuses with trips to The Caucasus Mountains?

Okay, lol:


https://jacobin-v2.positiondevapp.com/2020/02/iowa-caucus-results-disaster-pete-buttigieg

But also Buttigieg is the kind of guy who’d have a Sega and not a NES.

https://i.imgur.com/8PQiK3a.png

at 71% reporting bernie's back in the lead just slightly