Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

vs "politicians want to give you free healthcare like that which is commonplace in countries in the rest of the developed world by wresting it from kind of private enterprise which can't even develop a working caucus app"

If I could, I would wave a magic wand and give every American first-hand experience of Canadian health care, Canadian higher education, and Canadian elections, so that you could all viscerally understand how truly fucked-up the American versions are.

— Darcy James Argue (@darcyjamesargue) February 4, 2020

The low turnout is ominous to be honest

― treeship., Tuesday, February 4, 2020 9:27 AM (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

The reports I saw were that it was on par with 2016 but not as high as the record year of 2008. I don't know that it means anything in terms of general-election turnout. Someone else made the point that many Democrats may be undecided about who to vote for in the caucus (and thus give up and stay home) but will enthusiastically vote for whoever the nominee is against Trump.

ppl should not be overconfident about the general - trump is going to be formidable. i would've liked to see them run the first primaries in the real swing states but PA won't vote until April. it seems likely to me that with an incumbent with a good economy with the bar set so low enthusiasm on the dem side is going to be muted.

You have some great universities tbf. 2xp

if only there was a candidate with a highly-developed campaign infrastructure who polls extremely well against trump xp

hallelujah bernie will save us

Is Bernie polling that well against Trump? I thought they were all pretty much margin-of-error away from each other

low turnout this year just indicates to me how ridiculously strong obama was as a candidate in 2008

*low turnout compared to 2008

hallelujah bernie will save us

Mordy I know you like to mock Bernie stans but I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you think anyone in here assumes any of this is going to be easy.

i think responding to my comment with "well then durrr bernie" is worthy of a little mockery esp from a non-US poster

xps to Mordy, I think the argument can be made that the only reason Trump got elected in 2016 is because people were complacent and didn't believe he could actually win. Now 1) we know better; and 2) Trump remains one of the least popular presidents of the last ?? years, good economy or not. I think those are reasons to be *guardedly* optimistic.

mordy: low enthusiasm on the dem side is gonna be a problem
me: well bernie has a very motivated base and the most solid campaign infrastructure so maybe making him the candidate makes most sense to combat that
mordy: this dumb foreigner deserves a pasting

maybe i'm still traumatized from 2004 - in some ways Trump is obviously worse than GWB (just in terms of being vulgar and gross) but in terms of real accomplishments and lack of real failures Trump seems like a stronger incumbent than GWB did. and i do think all the fearmongering over Trump will have some negative blowback since he won't be judged on his own terms but rather by whether he validated liberal hysteria about his admin.

*low turnout compared to 2008

― ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili)

Obama also came after eight years of awful Republican president.

Obama also ran during a major recession

still plenty of time for one of those to materialise before the election tbf

Bernie has just as much to overcome as any of the other likely candidates. Assuming he has some obvious advantage is pure folly. The only way any dem beats Trump is if the pure hatred towards him sends people flooding to the polls.

That's not true; the Dem could use a bat

“Lack of real failures,” well, if anyone gave Puerto Rico a fraction of the attention it deserved...

Obama also came after eight years of awful Republican president.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 11:17 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Obama also ran during a major recession
― Mordy, Tuesday, February 4, 2020 11:18 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

still plenty of time for one of those to materialise before the election tbf

― Homegrown Georgia speedster Ladd McConkey (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 11:18 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Look I know Trump is pretty awful but I am pretty sure he isn't able to squeeze four extra years of being awful into the next nine months

"hold my beer"

I think Trump is probably going to win no matter who the nom is, but I think Bernie has the best chance of beating him.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/481360-trump-hits-highest-gallup-approval-rating-of-his-presidency?fbclid=IwAR1n827iirHjuhaviSwUO0gvcY_ZrWf3s4qKls2YhozQ4ADp6IdXoMGkNmQ

xp to bg: o wait never mind, you meant a major recession? um okay but I am not sure more economic hardship is what I'd set my electoral hopes on

Trump doesn't have a pet war like GWB did. Yet.

I'd prefer they had a bat, but I'm not convinced it's what they need. My sense is that they are stuck between a mass of people who want a fighter and an equally large mass that want to bring back civility to politics or whatever.

xp to DJP

please god, strike him down

The only way any dem beats Trump is if the pure hatred towards him sends people flooding to the polls.

i mean i'd like to think that a coherent vision of an america which offers its citizens decent healthcare, education and work in a society committed to averting climate catastrophe would be more motivating for voters and non-voters than 'orange man bad' but ymmv i guess

I think Trump is probably going to win no matter who the nom is, but I think Bernie has the best chance of beating him.

idk about "probably" - too much can happen over this long a period - but this is more or less where I'm at. It will be an uphill battle for anyone.

old white volunteers

fwiw this is the head of the Iowa Democratic Party in the center
https://www.thegazette.com/storyimage/GA/20181003/ARTICLE/181009890/AR/0/AR-181009890.jpg&MaxH=500&MaxW=900

I am unsure if his head is currently attached to his shoulders though

I'd prefer they had a bat, but I'm not convinced it's what they need. My sense is that they are stuck between a mass of people who want a fighter and an equally large mass that want to bring back civility to politics or whatever.

I'm just saying that once you get past the Secret Service, the number of options available for beating Trump increases dramatically

yes bg if everyone believed that the dems were likely to deliver better healthcare education and avoid climate catastrophe they'd win in a landslide but as maybe you've discovered from yr own country not everyone agrees with you

like, you could beat Trump with that houseplant, or even that chair assuming you could lift it

lol DJP

yes bg if everyone believed that the dems were likely to deliver better healthcare education and avoid climate catastrophe they'd win in a landslide but as maybe you've discovered from yr own country not everyone agrees with you

it's true, we should stop pushing for a better world because jormy crobnuts lost an election

"civility" needs to be shoved up this country's ass

as Perrin said on his podcast yesterday, it's only enforced with those who are powerless

xp you're a landfill poster that's hardly worth responding to but the point isn't to stop pushing for a better world. the point is that just making grand promises about how your program is better is not sufficient to winning elections and it's not self-evident to voters what is self-evident to you about how best to organize society.

Civility is mad overrated in times like these; most of the time, the people pushing for it are the ones who are still comfortable and don't want that comfort disturbed.

You don't see very many people getting their asses beat by police/Nazis yelling "OW OW WHAT HAPPENED TO CIVILITY OW MY NOSE"

making grand promises about how your program is better is not sufficient to winning elections

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.salon.com%2F2013%2F04%2Fchange_we_need.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

thanks for the personal attack tho mordy, good to see civility isn't a problem for you

i'd like to think that a coherent vision of an america which offers its citizens decent healthcare, education and work in a society committed to averting climate catastrophe would be more motivating for voters and non-voters than 'orange man bad' but ymmv i guess

Most Americans don't have a coherent vision of their day post-breakfast. Focus them on an enemy (and Trump is happily doing a lot of the work in that department himself), wind 'em up and watch 'em go.

Lol, DJP, I'm with you there, although my personal fantasy is more of a French Revolution scenario.

bernie's messaging on who america's enemies are is pretty clear too iirc xp

bernie's messaging on who america's enemies are is pretty clear too iirc xp

What I meant is, Trump is doing a really good job of jumping up and down, waving his arms and shouting, "Over here! Look at me! I am your enemy! Me!"

Seriously, the idea of most Americans having any idea what the candidates and parties stand for, or how politics and our political institutions function, is laughable on its face.

Speaking as a product of American public education, I can't help but issue a hearty 'what the fuck is a politics?'

how are y'all doin today

I am proud to report that there were stodgy farmers wearing "fuck trump" t-shirts showing up to caucuses