Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

If the Dems take the Senate and the WH, the political power of Manchin and his ilk multiplies exponentially. This is not concern-trolling, it is a fact. Sanders isn't likely to cut deals that someone like Biden would to get Manchin's vote, which could mean the difference between good legislation, shitty legislation or no legislation at all.

Sanders' biography suggests more legislative compromises than he's told his most fervent followers, but veremos.

haha fair

I asked the @AndrewYang campaign for a response to the DNC rules. They sent me this tweet https://t.co/9dOd1ykfs8

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) January 31, 2020

Sanders' biography suggests more legislative compromises than he's told his most fervent followers

this is true but

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/468278-manchin-says-he-wouldnt-back-sanders-against-trump-in-presidential-race

whereas we all know Biden would smear himself with coal, put on a hardhat and get down on one knee for Manchin in exchange for *any* kind of legislation he could call a victory

i think we're overlooking the obvious answer which is Manchin needs to be dragged out to the ocean and drowned

well yeah

let’s talk about it when there are18 more Never Bernie senators, which I believe is the standing threshold for prez viability

Obama’s desire to compromise with shitty Senators is how he squandered 2009-10. Fuck Manchin, he can toe the line.

remind me, what are some of the things biden wants to do that we're excited about, but that manchin would be on the fence about, but not *so* on the fence that a principle-free dealmaker president couldn't get him on board in exchange for, say, some sops to the planet-destroying coal industry?

if the Manch has to be catered to, i don't care who wins the election

having trouble parsing that, Doc

if the Manch has to be catered to, i don't care who wins the election

what are you so excited about working hard for then

maybe trains? xp

cuz there's no path to a Dem majority that doesn't involve Manchin (and possibly Doug Jones, who I actually think is considerably better/more amenable on the big issues)

xp

bcz he doesnt have to be fuckin catered to

xxp

you think GOP Senators are gonna cross the line and vote for Bernie's legislative agenda? idgi

oh this will be a fun friday afternoon

say the Dems pick off Senate seats in ME, CO, AZ, and KS and don't lose AL - they still need Manchin's or Jones' vote just to get to a majority.

And they need to be willing to jettison the filibuster

lol map

the filibuster is a separate issue

xps

Manchin being the 51st vote matters little if you need 60.

but you don't need 60 to pass budgets, reconcile bills etc

idk I agree the filibuster is bullshit and needs to go - and Schumer has publicly floated the possibility of axing it - but I'm not sure he could really get a majority to back it, that would be a tough battle.

there's obviously no way any Dem president, no matter who it is, gets 60 votes on anything.

my post was word salad, sorry. i'm saying that "sanders may struggle to win manchin votes" doesn't convince me of much. if you're more likely to win over manchin, it's probably because you suck. and if all we want is a democratic president who can get manchin's vote to "get things passed," the simplest expedient would be to have mitch mcconnell change parties and nominate him - joe will be there!

and even if you do strip out the filibuster, there's ol' Manchin as the linchpin of any majority votes.

xps

That is true, but the Democrats will be a failure if they gain a majority and don't pass significant new legislation. There's much more beyond budgets that needs to happen very quickly or we are for real doomed.

the trick is finagling some way to make everything part of the budget!

and if all we want is a democratic president who can get manchin's vote to "get things passed,"

idk what universe you guys live in where the Dems don't need Manchin's vote.

like you want Bernie to be president so that he can... accomplish very little/next to nothing and yell at Manchin for 4 years? OK, cool plan you have there.

Someone should be yelling at Manchin for 4 years though

Seriously, put his feet to the fire. Also, a larger majority is conceivable in 2022.

Obama’s desire to compromise with shitty Senators is how he squandered 2009-10. Fuck Manchin, he can toe the line.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, January 31, 2020

are we forgetting when Obama could magically pass legislation without a filibuster- proof majority

the alternative seems to be getting biden so that he can.... pass only such things that are shitty and conservative enough to meet the sniff test of Joe Manchin? like at that point we might as well just talk about the Manchin presidency. what are some of the great and exciting pieces of legislation that happen in that scenario but couldn't possibly happen with a progressive president?

It's a fun Friday afternoon because nothing will happen legislatively without the Senate; otherwise, President Sanders/Biden/Warren will issue executive orders like Trump and Obama do -- which will still have significant effect on on our lives.

Shakey for Biden! AARP card and extra malarkey are in the mail.

Yglesias makes the case that Sanders would be most effective in changing the course of foreign policy in a less militaristic direction which requires little Congressional involvement.

also climate action is foreign policy

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/11/18306132/bernie-sanders-filibuster-budget-reconciliation-medicare-60-votes

article is from apr, and im sure most of yall already know, but sanders' work-around wrt to the senate is through budget reconciliation

We really need some senatorial candidates running on the platform of abolishing the Senate

That's a Republican position

It is? I've seen it most heavily espoused by people on the left for the last decade at least.

Based on the fact that they're going to acquit Trump, I'm taking the stance that the Republican Party only sees the Senate as a body of lapdogs for whomever our elected emperor is and not an independent legislative body with its own mission and powers.

article is from apr, and im sure most of yall already know, but sanders' work-around wrt to the senate is through budget reconciliation

this workaround requires Manchin's vote

I feel like a broken record

to change the tune: Sanders would unequivocally be better than Biden on foreign policy

President Sanders/Biden/Warren will issue executive orders like Trump and Obama do -- which will still have significant effect on on our lives.

this is true, but Sanders can't deliver on his signature goals (M4A, Green New Deal etc.) this way

right, article not intended to be a refutation of that particular pt (manchin sucks) xp

to change the tune: Sanders would unequivocally be better than Biden on foreign policy

― Οὖτις, Friday, January 31, 2020 8:57 PM (one minute ago)

otm

if we're looking at which candidate can generate enough base turnout now and in 2022 (when there's a bunch of vulnerable GOP seats up for grabs) i still think thats sanders

Let me get this straight: Shakey is advocating that we let Joe Manchin decide who the Dem nominee is?

This is dumb. I wouldn't let Joe Manchin decide which mine shaft to drop him down.