Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

because that's pretty much what being president is like, along with occasionally thinking and praying about people who die in mass shootings

I like Warren better than Sanders but come on, that call script is extremely milquetoast "Look we both like them both but here's my argument for why my candidate is incrementally better and you should vote for him," it's not exactly scorched-earth shit.

I think people are marinating themselves in Twitter accounts by a small number of very loud "Warren is a WAR PIG" people, somehow convincing themselves that is the Official View of The Left, and then seeing that subtext everywhere

because that's pretty much what being president is like, along with occasionally thinking and praying about people who die in mass shootings

― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone)

and offering Happy Meals to fire fighters.

the idea that Sanders will bring in people that Warren wouldn't is pretty compelling though

I like them both but Sanders' hardline stance on war makes me favor him

I'm sad about Booker being out. I was sad about Harris being out too. Even though I probably wouldn't have ended up voting for either of them. There are just a lot of people who would make fine Presidents who won't get to be.

Erik Loomis: "When the left supports white candidates and liberals support white candidates and centrists support white candidates and whites support white candidates and blacks support white candidates and Latinos support white candidates, a white candidate field is what you get!"

I mean, he's not wrong but

I think people are marinating themselves in Twitter accounts by a small number of very loud "Warren is a WAR PIG" people, somehow convincing themselves that is the Official View of The Left, and then seeing that subtext everywhere

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, January 13, 2020 12:22 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

at this point I am substantially-to-heavily leaning Bernie, but given that some of those people have harassed my friends who support Warren (including comments on their physical appearance, weight, and other things of that nature) I'm not sure "marinating" is the correct word

OK fair point. I don't do intra-Dem politics on Twitter and I am not a member of the gender whose physical appearance tends to get derided on Twitter so I was not really thinking about this.

I've been told often I'm not lefty enough by many long-haired white Bernie supporters to know it's a thing.

Booker is a hilariously transparent con man and machine-friendly NJ pol

raise thy standards

I mean, basic focus grouping would tell you that the only people who thought black people were going to automatically line up to vote for Booker were white people

Machine politics is probably more noxious to me than DLC third wayism in terms of the prior century’s legacies to the Democratic Party. In no small part because locally they helped elect the handpicked successor of our child-raping mayor.

sure ok cnn

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-meeting/index.html

The description of that meeting is based on the accounts of four people: two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting.

are they sure that's four different people

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-meeting/index.html

sure ok cnn

prez my man

Sanders' response is pretty good:

"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said. "It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016."

won't be enough for the Bernie Didn't Campaign for Clinton fantasists

the idea that Sanders will bring in people that Warren wouldn't is pretty compelling though

Warren has been my top choice since the campaign began, but this is what's making me reconsider. Of course, by the time I vote in mid-March, who knows what the field will look like.

i for one am dropping out of the presidential race

Brad won't settle for being my VIP

I kind of relate to this (I haven't spent any time around active Warren campaigners, but the realization that the Warren base is demographically narrow was disheartening):

“I had always liked Warren and I liked the idea of having another candidate with progressive stances, who was a woman and a little younger than Bernie, that I could potentially support,” said Lauren Rinaldi, a Philadelphia-based artist who was an early organizer of the "Philly for Warren" Facebook group and first spoke with POLITICO at a Warren campaign event in July. “I was also thinking that maybe she could be the candidate to sort of bridge the Hillary people and the Bernie people.

She described the experience as "fun and a bit exhilarating at the beginning, but then I started to feel a little turned off by the whole thing; I found that I was in a bubble of mostly white, college-educated supporters with, what felt like to me, almost an artificial 'wokeness.'" Rinaldi is now supporting Sanders, as she did in 2016.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/09/elizabeth-warren-2020-closing-argument-097023

artificial wokeness
sets the body free
artificial wokeness
baby you & me

Not that true real authentic American wokeness we all crave

BREAKING:

2 ex-warren staffers told me that in a confidential meeting between Bernie and Warren, Bernie kept insisting that "boys go to college to get more knowledge" and that "girls are from jupiter, because they are stupider"

he would sing the song and clap until we cried

— mister angry at oscar (golden man bad) (@mistermoviespod) January 13, 2020

"and that commuting & downtowns & neighbourhoods & parks are all improved by public transport, is more effectively done when you have a few years to message, rather than three seconds."

A campaign won't be three seconds and actually a lot can be done over a couple of months. Job if the campaign to put into place a set of messages that can resonate. There has been quite a lot of messaging over the Green New Deal so it would be an extension of that.

"two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting"

is this just a fancy way of saying "four people who were not present at the meeting"?

Bernie campaign has instructed volunteers to say that Kid A is “overrated.”

— noah kulwin (@nkulw) January 13, 2020

I finally wised up and muted the word "Bernie" on Twitter. It was that or unfollow some IRL friends.

uh so Marianne has endorsed Sanders?

sorry, someone posted a 2015 link

can y'all keep the bernie lol tweets in his devoted lol thread

This is why the Politico story is a thing, btw:

A fraying non-aggression pact
The New York Times first reported over a year ago that Warren and Sanders met in Washington in December 2018. That initial report said that neither senator sought each other's support, and that they did not try to dissuade one another from running in the 2020 election.
If Warren and Sanders agreed on a non-aggression pact of sorts that night, that agreement has become increasingly frayed.
Over the last year, Sanders aides and advisers have taken to social media to criticize Warren on numerous issues, including "Medicare for All," student loan debt cancelation and the "wealth tax." Some of his allies have also implicitly and explicitly gone after Warren on the broader question of who has the rightful claim to the progressive mantle in 2020.
"People have to decide do they want originals or do they want copies," Nina Turner, Sanders' campaign co-chair, told CNN over the summer. "He's the original."
Politico reported over the weekend on the Sanders campaign's talking points instructing volunteers to say that Warren's supporters are "highly-educated, more affluent people who are going to show up and vote Democratic no matter what" and that "she's bringing no new bases into the Democratic Party."
Campaigning in Marshalltown, Iowa, Warren told reporters that she was "disappointed to hear that Bernie is sending his volunteers out to trash me."
"Bernie knows me, and has known me for a long time," Warren said. "He knows who I am, where I come from, what I have worked on and fought for, and the coalition and grassroots movement we're trying to build."
Sanders himself appeared to distance himself from the memo, saying on Sunday that his campaign has "hundreds of employees" and that "people sometimes say things that they shouldn't."
"I have never said a negative word about Elizabeth Warren, who is a friend of mine," Sanders said.

Politico, true to its roots, back to sowing discord.

Not a big, thing, I'd still vote Sanders if I was in Iowa, anyone who changes their mind based on those talking points is insane. But I have to say I find the sanctimonious bullshit also displayed in this thread so offputting. What's wrong with just saying 'yeah, guess that's new, but now is probably the time to do so.' But instead it's both 'probably the lying media, don't ever trust them' and ALSO 'of course he does, this is completely the right thing to do' at the same time. The inability to discuss anything on any parameter other than whether or not it's good for Sanders.

what

let's all adopt Fred's parameters whatever they be arrrrrr

this is where Fred mistakes a bunch of posters saying different things for one poster saying a bunch of contradictory things

so... it's a thread on ILX

lolz

Lol, come on. Every Berner on here would have followed Calzino's twitter-lead here if it hadn't been shot down immediately.

Not a big, thing

I'd estimate that about 95% of the campaign details we discuss in this thread are so abstruse or unimportant that they will have zero impact on the outcome of the nomination. That politico article falls somewhere in the bottom 5%, even by this thread's eager-to-dissect-every-nuance standards.

the most important thing that we don't really talk about is that if Bernie really does manage to identify, turn out, and win the votes of people who polling, modeling, and conventional wisdom don't think will vote, things are gonna get wild

he better, because that's his plan to deal with mcconnell and the gop

though tbf, it's not like any other democrat has a plan either. either a democratic candidate wins with enough of a landslide to overpower mcconnell and get legislation signed, or they win and wait another two to thirty-six years to get a veto-proof majority. i guess there's the possibility that the GOP will realize the foolishness of their postures and change thei.....haaa...ahahah.aa.ahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahaha

I think if that plan worked, the midway primaries would have looked a lot different. I don't think it's needed though, I could see him win Iowa and New Hampshire, and it just rolls from there. He is well positioned in the Midwest, so a good candidate against Trump. It doesn't really need new voters.

to balance that with a little optimism - i actually DO think there's a good chance that sanders could win in a landslide