The Battle of Mia Farrow's Creepy Exes: FRANK SINATRA vs. WOODY ALLEN

is Woody's music better than Frank's movies?

tbf I've never heard a note of Woody's music outside of what's heard in Wild Man Blues (which is fine). I really only rate the Manchurian Candidate out of Frank's movies.

credit sequence of the Tender Trap and one or two of the musical numbers in Anchors Away notwithstanding

Songs for swingin' lovers > any woody Allen movie

Deconstructing Harry > all Frank after 1966

also Woody's are p much the only good movies Mia made besides Rosemary's Baby and A Wedding

Deconstructing Harry > all Frank after 1966

low bar

OK, maybe not "Bein' Green"

my way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deconstructing harry

def not

that song sucks tbh

you are a heartless dybbuk

oic i meant "Bein' Green"

"My Way" is tripe

someone told me Sinatra secretly hated "My Way" but i can't confirm

Sinatra's best work either rings with insouciance or wallows in vulnerability. By the time of "My Way" all you're hearing is ego and anger curdled into a kind of self-righteousness.

"Bein' Green" is fine cuz its playful

Annie Hall means a lot more to me than anything I know by Sinatra.

I have no connection whatever to work by either of these guys. Or Mia Farrow.

I can't stand any "My Way" except Sid's.

I can't fathom indifference or hostility to a Sinatra ballad tbh.

Woah back up, we're dismissing *all* Frank after 66? The Jobim album was 67 (his last Grammy nod if it means owt).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQYaLNF8l8M

Hm yeah amend that cutoff date, the Jobim album is fantastic

Watertown and to a lesser extent She Shot Me Down rule

I find almost all of Sinatra's output that was arranged by Nelson Riddle to be irritatingly facile.

how are you defining "facile" in this context?

To dislike Nelson Riddle's arrangements is to dislike Sinatra, period, unless you wanna make an argument for Gordon Jenkins or something.

Don Costa enjoying a posthumous sigh of relief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJxS_1LzUKw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XncEILEGc

I can't stand any "My Way" except Sid's.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, January 10, 2020 8:42 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I can't fathom indifference or hostility to a Sinatra ballad tbh.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, January 10, 2020 8:50 PM (one hour ago)

Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim is indeed a fantastic album. Somebody was recently talking about the followup that was recorded but never released because one of the two didn't like it. There is also something in Ruy Castro's book about how the Bossa Nova movement grew out of a Sinatra fan club, actually a Farney-Sinatra fan club, Dick Farney being a Brazilian singer who claimed some connection to Sinatra, iirc.

To dislike Nelson Riddle's arrangements is to dislike Sinatra

Yup. Last time I looked this was still allowed under current law. While I can easily see the intent of how these recordings were put together, I am not moved by his phrasing nor by the instrumentation. Any actual emotion is smothered to death by the simulation of emotion.

nb: to answer your query, that last sentence is what I meant by "facile".

that opinion should not be allowed under current law

Jesus wept, but he wasn't listening to Frank Sinatra being 'vulnerable' when he did so.

Somebody was recently talking about the followup that was recorded but never released because one of the two didn't like it.

Think that was me--don't remember which thread tho. Sinatra had issues with his own performances on three tracks and had the album--which had already been pressed and sent out on 8-track--pulled in favor of Watertown. The remaining 7 songs snuck out a few years later as half of Sinatra & Company. Many years later all 20 Jobim tracks were released on a Complete Sessions CD with great liner notes by Stan Cronyn, which detail the whole affair.

the simulation of emotion = lots of art

anyway this 'battle' smells of Idiot Repository Thread

the simulation of emotion = lots of art

I am perfectly willing to place Sinatra on a level with lots of other professional singers. Most of them, tbf.

write-in vote for Andre Previn

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP)

Idk if we wanna get into an authenticity argument but its p easy to argue from Frank’s bio that a fair amount of those emotions as conveyed on record were not “simulation”

I mean when he called them wrist-slitters he was being p literal

Stylized and refined, sure, but “simulated” is a bridge too far imo

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as a kid in the 70s Sinatra was the past, nobody my age cared about him. Allen was modern

I feel differently now, but still voted Allen

voted for the one with the eyes 👀

If we’re voting “less gross” that’s a very tough decision. Voted Sinatra EVEN THOUGH HE IS VERY GROSS because Woody Allen is grosser, on the whole. More insidious. What a couple of gross exes!!

Didn't Sinatra tie up and rape unconscious women
I think that's documented

Sinatra had people killed, don't know how anyone could think Woody was worse

it's funny (but not surprising) how this comes down to "who do you believe the worst about?" for some ppl

I mean what else would it be, comparing artistic outputs?
Woody would still win

that's what it is and not necessarily

If we’re voting “less gross” that’s a very tough decision. Voted Sinatra EVEN THOUGH HE IS VERY GROSS because Woody Allen is grosser, on the whole. More insidious. What a couple of gross exes!!

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera),

Sinatra the shrewder, more resourceful and original artist too

I really loved Annie Hall. I remember having a contentious discussion about it at the dinner table with my older brother, and also remember a friend at the time being disgusted that it won the academy award over Star Wars

manchurian candidate is better than any of allen's movies

what it comes down to for me is i never need to see annie hall or manhattan ever again and i am forever yoked to sings for only the lonely, one of the richest, deepest records ever made by fuckin anybody

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, January 16, 2020 12:28 AM (thirty-five minutes ago)

^^^^

I can still watch any number of Woody Allen films, like I watch many old Transformers and G.I. Joe: The Real American Hero episodes

Manchurian Candidate was good but was not as good as Annie Hall, Manhattan, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Zelig or Hannah and Her Sisters for me

Frank's acting > Woody's jazz stylings

Woody was p much my comedic hero from age 14-24. I've never denied he's a creep though.

I used to enjoy a few woody films but couldn’t make it through Manhattan, it seemed like just real bullshit. Annie Hall is classic obv. But Frank is a dude I’ll always have time for. Ever since I was a kid I liked the guy, but it helps that I was exposed to his lonely guy just thinkin bout things albums early on and not his bombastic coasting legend LPs from the ‘70s on (though as far as the ‘70s go his Jobim collabs are vv nice). Good actor too.

The last Woody film I liked was Deconstructing Harry since it was a pretty bleak piece of self loathing, vs being mildly self deprecating.

I still love Allen's early comedies, like Interiors.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, January 15, 2020

I like this comment!

tbh I might even say Frank's acting >> Woody's "acting"

omar otm, tho the 2 eps i saw of his sitcom w/ Elaine May were better than expected

manchurian candidate is better than any of quisper tarantino's movies, what's yr effin point

Tisa Farrow has a more interesting filmography than Mia Farrow

Sleeper is funnier than Dirty Dingus Magee

Frank basically desegregated Las Vegas, whereas I'm not sure Woody knows what nonwhite people are.

Frank basically desegregated Las Vegas

ehh this is a stretch

the racial patter w/ Sammy from some of the Rat Pack live recordings is less than sensitive

I'm not sure Woody knows what nonwhite people are

puts a lotta old jazz records on his soundtracks

puts a lotta old jazz records on his soundtracks

A regular Woody E. B. DuBois.

Frank's racial politics are interesting - he was definitely committed to integration and, in particular, making sure his fellow musicians/entertainers were treated fairly, but he simultaneously held very common attitudes that we would describe today as racist: freely using epithets, stereotypes, etc. It was like he was against institutionalized discrimination and racially motivated hatred, but didn't see tossing around the n-word in a jocular manner as being as being an issue because hey different ethnic groups making fun of each other was no big deal.

listening to his frequent lapses into an "Amos and Andy" voice is genuinely painful

classic "it's a joke, relaaaax, get a sense of humor!" guy

different ethnic groups making fun of each other was no big deal.

i grew up with this kind of humor tho w/in TV limits, usually

i take the 5th on any further discussion of its merits, but yay Uncle Floyd Show

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