star wars 9 spoilers and postmortem shit talk

xpost Tbf, The Force is the ultimate Invisible Hand.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electronicproducts.com%2FuploadedImages%2FAnalog_Mixed_Signal_ICs%2FCommunications%2FUnlimited%2520Power%2520Gif.gif&f=1&nofb=1

^ those motivations in full

(villain at last attains ultimate power, spends all subsequent days masturbating with no hands)

is it bad for bb-8 to see you masturbating with no hands

Don't you mean MasturBB-8?

I mean yeah the cartoonish ambitions of bad dudes and their unquenchable thirst for 'MOAH POWAH!' as if they're some kind of supervirus racing to burn out its host as quickly as possible...it's all fucking ridiculous when you ask the question 'and then what?' more than like three times but I guess we're getting daily reminders of late just how real this incoherent tendency is.

Like they never even do anything cool or interesting with ultimate power. Hey, you have the galaxy under your thumb, why not force people to perform in that weird rock opera you wrote when you were fourteen?

I think the motivations in the first films were very easy to understand because they just kinda made sense. Some guy wants to be emperor, yeah, that happens. The republic fell, the senate got abolished. Again, things like that happens. I did like how in the prequels there was kinda this Sword & Sandal theme to some of it, to go along with the Fall of the Roman Republic subtext. Even a sci-fi chariot race! A big problem with the new trilogy was that they never really bothered to explain what on earth was going on anyway, it was just an order fighting a resistance, and... It was kinda hard to grasp.

I've built up this pet peeve over the last few years, where I really think the Clone Wars should have been a clone slave uprising a la Spartacus. It is kinda a big problem with the prequels that Lucas seems kinda scared to put a finger on exactly why the Republic collapsed, apart from taxation and separatism, where it was never really clear what the stakes were.

xpost MOAH POWAH!

I mean, the motivations are coherent when you do a tight zoom but as soon as you pan out it's like...what, exactly, is this all for in the end?

It was kinda hard to grasp.

lol no it wasn't.

https://syrosfilmfestival.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/kin-dza-dza-300x214.jpg

'You on Earth have a very primitive society. You don't even differentiate yourselves by the colour of your pants! If society doesn't have colour differentiation of pants, it has no purpose!'

Nonsense is hard to grasp.

Fred, I gather that the exploration of those themes took place in the cartoon (which I'm watching atm and just last night saw an ep about one of the clones seemingly turning traitor only to ultimately reveal that he's one of the only ones who recognizes the clones' enslavement).

Just the fact that there was a Republic in charge, and a Resistance, but they were on the same side?

I read a thing recently that clarified Palpy's prequel plan a bit, namely that he saw the Jedi as the only true threat to his taking power so he had to foment and sustain a fake conflict long enough to disperse their ranks throughout the galaxy so as to make them easier pickings when it came time to drop the hammer.

(And also the thing where the Jedi participation in this seemingly-endless conflict had made them super unpopular, thereby softening the outrage when they were wiped out.)

my point, which got lost in the shuffle, is not "ACTUALLY, I think you'll find that film one in the fourth trilogy sneaking in a q4 release in '22 will best meet both fandom and shareholders needs *adjusts cyberglasses*" but instead that if you are hating these shitty films, step one to a better galaxy is don't see them as your ticket dollars are the voting engine that guarantees more shitty films in the franchise

Diarrhea

But...but what if the next one is only like a little shitty, what if that

It's not a risk I'm willing to take (wires paycheck to Disney, Inc.).

what if i enjoy wasting my time and my money on things that are bad, then what

agreed about the republic-resistance-first-order stuff being terrible and unclear - posted about that a lot in the last two films' threads, and this one didn't help matters at all. one thing johnson tried to do in Last Jedi was at least wave in the direction of giving this space world some kind of ground, showing a decadent and exploitative ruling class getting rich off of arms dealing for the various wars. it didn't feed into a lot of other details or anything, but it was something. i still wish he'd found room for one dialogue scene to backfill (or at least hint at) the status quo ante.

in general i think the big success of johnson's script, on a thematic level, was to take things in the direction he wanted primarily by "yes-anding" things that came before.... most cleverly, in trying to build on the idea of "balance in the Force" by saying that doesn't mean the light side just crushes the dark side, and it doesn't mean light=Jedi and dark=Sith... Rey realizing that life and death are both part of the Force, etc... great scene, and because it actually mobilizes the prequels alongside Empire Strikes Back, it almost creates the sense that this is one big giant story and that all the pieces were there for a reason. we were supposed to notice that the prequels' stiff, reticent, clueless board-room Jedi were a problem! really great move. revealing that rey's parents are nobodies, in turn, could feel (if they'd stuck the landing in #9) like it was all supposed to be this way: in 7, we'll set her up as having special mysterious parents, and then in 8, twist, they're nobodies, she has to define for herself who she is, so in #9 it's wide open for her to self-actualize (and we're in real suspense about what choices she'll make). this material in 8 comes right as luke is helping her see that despite his own life story and big heroic narrative, birth isn't destiny.

like, there's very little where Johnson looks at the previous films and goes "psssh, forget THAT." whereas abrams in #9 is just kicking all of Johnson's stuff to the curb without even trying to retrofit it into what he wants to do, or make it look like it was there for a reason. light and dark are manichaean opposites, rose is gone, rey's family tree has to matter, her temptation to the dark side is at the level of Harry Potter worrying that if he has snake-talking powers it might mean he's really evil, rey and kylo's narratives are determined by characters from the old films... essentially the only thing he took from movie #2 and built upon was the idea that the rebels got backed into a corner and nobody came to help them at the end.

I read a thing recently that clarified Palpy's prequel plan a bit, namely that he saw the Jedi as the only true threat to his taking power so he had to foment and sustain a fake conflict long enough to disperse their ranks throughout the galaxy so as to make them easier pickings when it came time to drop the hammer.

― Drive Like a Demon From Steakhouse to Steakhouse (Old Lunch), Wednesday, January 8, 2020 8:42 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

(And also the thing where the Jedi participation in this seemingly-endless conflict had made them super unpopular, thereby softening the outrage when they were wiped out.)

― Drive Like a Demon From Steakhouse to Steakhouse (Old Lunch), Wednesday, January 8, 2020 8:43 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

lmao as usual my favorite thing about the prequels is they are extremely nakedly obvious allegories

what if i enjoy wasting my time and my money on things that are bad, then what

hell yes *wastes life, dies alone and miserable*

re: what you do with ultimate power here's a better quote from Kin Dza-Dza:

"There will be no air for anybody who comes here... The air will be ours. They'll be crawling around, and we'll be spitting on them."
"Why??"
"For fun!"
"Where's the fun in that?"
"Ah" *laughs* "You're too young to understand..."

if you are hating these shitty films

This doesn't actually describe anyone in this thread though?

(cut to shot of blue sky that Shakey warps into)

I absolutely hate all three of them at this point. I don't pay for tickets, though

i may be projecting: i hate what i've seen of these shitty films and am not watching more until someone i trust can tell me with a straight face that they succeed on their own merits

Rogue One is a good film, go see that (wait, do you mean like ALL Star Wars film including the original trilogy?)

i watched rogue one on netflix while recuperating from a bad cold, it was... okay? It was fine. I barely remember it.
I have determined that the original trilogy are not films that i ever want to see or particularly want to think about ever again. Maybe with a child if they're interested. Otherwise, their metastasization into cultural ubiquity has left me really exhausted with them and i am okay avoiding with the exception of well-done side projects that catch my fancy ("fancy" spelled "mandalorian")

Not to single you out, forks, because you're good people, but I don't understand that thing ILXors do where they enter a discussion about a thing only to say some variation on 'this thing is garbage and not worth thinking about or discussing'. I don't think I'll ever understand. I've tried.

well now i've watched and obsessed over A LOT of star wars; i am a nerd spurned not a never-was-a-nerd! i tried both the new trilogies and found them deeply wanting and will likely in a moment of weakness watch Last Jedi. I'm just saying (again and again), don't pay for this stuff in theaters when it's clear by every critical analysis that i've read - both fan and pro - that this is a botched bit of work. Skip day one and wait for some feedback before investing, same as you would with most films and maybe we'll live in a less culturally shitty world.

Also I don't understand the thing where the ubiquity of a cultural product has reached a degree of ubiquity such that those who find it distasteful find it inescapable. Like professional sports have been up in my grill throughout my life and I somehow manage to walk by Wrigley Field without flashing the double bird and blowing raspberries in the direction of the entire dumb enterprise. Most of the time I manage, anyway. The beat-downs from superfans are a good deterrent, I find.

xpost I feel you, forks.

tbf 2 u, if i had to choose between canceling "sports culture" and "star wars culture", i'd likely go for the former as more harmful and omnipresent and noxious.

As I mentioned in all three of the attendant threads, this latest trilogy has been a nice excuse for theatergoing with my whole family for the first time (three times) in forever. Otherwise, I probably would've been fine seeing them (and quickly forgetting them) whenever I got around to seeing them.

So you understand that everything is bad, but you haven't actually watched the good one? FFS.

I would like to cancel Harry Potter

xp yeah, i get that for a lot of people this is an opportunity to revisit childhood/fatherhood/motherhood and i am less vehement in my declaration of "STOP BUYING HORSESHIT ASSHOLES" toward that demographic. but the money spends either way!

how "good" is the "good one"? as good as Aniara or as good as Fast Color?

Solo is better than Rogue One, worse than Kin Dza-Dza

that was the question, right?

is Skywalker better than The Gods Must Be Crazy or worse than Warhol's Empire?

If you watch a Star War with the expectation of it being a Good Film you are doing it wrong afaict.

rogue one is so awful i can't believe people rep for it

If you watch a Star War with the expectation of it being a Good Film you are doing it wrong afaict.

fixed

needless inspirational speeches, bad jokes, too many characters who are just there to die

i suppose my point is that, even more than most genre fiction, the scale for star wars related stuff is graded on such a vicious curve that I would very much like to hear 'it is good' from someone who is also watching a lot of other non-blockbuster movies so that i have likeminded hive thinking to base my viewing-investment on... especially given that i will never talk my gal L. into watching this stuff with me, so it would have to fit into highly-coveted 'watching on my own' time"
or basically Old Lunch otm