All you need to know is that if they get any sense that the left would like them to consider a particular position in regards to any issue they will be instantly compelled to enthusiastically and loudly declare their dedication to the opposite stance. Past/future means nothing. Pushback = heel digging.
― Evan, Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:14 (four years ago) link
I'm sure some people on this board have legitimate insight into what Trump supporters are thinking; I just don't think ILX is the best place to find real answers to that question.
― 💠 (crüt), Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:23 (four years ago) link
Why do you doubt what they are saying? It's true.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:27 (four years ago) link
i'm sure many more Diner in Trump Country safaris are coming
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:29 (four years ago) link
― 💠 (crüt), Saturday, January 4, 2020 10:23 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
xp
― 💠 (crüt), Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:30 (four years ago) link
You're doubting people with real life experience with this shit
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:34 (four years ago) link
yeah i'm a lifelong red stater w conservative family and social media contacts and i'll be the first to let you know if i see one ounce of pushback from among his faithful. i would not hold my breath.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:36 (four years ago) link
i think the problem with the red/ blue divide is the media's fixation on how 'no one really knows someone with different politics any more' -- which in my experience isn't true at all. i know way too many people in real life who have breathtakingly appalling views.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:43 (four years ago) link
Moodles, I'm not doubting anyone. I don't think the ILXors who responded to paolo's question are wrong per se. I just don't think asking people what their political opponents are thinking about a political subject will result in a complete picture. I apologize for making a snarky throwaway remark instead of making a lucid point.
― 💠 (crüt), Saturday, 4 January 2020 16:44 (four years ago) link
Follow the leader. That's all there is to it, really.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 4 January 2020 17:05 (four years ago) link
You aren't going to get coherent independent thoughts about any of this stuff by talking directly to these people.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 4 January 2020 17:07 (four years ago) link
where does boris stand (at the moment) on various warrings
on holiday with no intention of returning home early
― Pinche Cumbion Bien Loco (stevie), Saturday, 4 January 2020 19:22 (four years ago) link
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters
― Yeets don't fail me now (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 4 January 2020 20:23 (four years ago) link
That reddit is pretty interesting.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Saturday, 4 January 2020 22:26 (four years ago) link
I'm pretty sure it's partly populated by actual paid shills but it makes for a useful glimpse nonetheless.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 4 January 2020 22:28 (four years ago) link
A typical attempt at cross-aisle communication:
Supporter: I am big on isolationism and it is worth noting that the increase in troops was in response to the issue in the embassy under siege.I am still unhappy to see Trump send more troop in the Middle east and hope that this is only temporary.I consider myself an ardent supporter and directly going into war with Iran would make me a lot less of an advocate for Trump (even if i dont see democrats as viable for 2 decades)....Nonsupporter: I'm just curious for your opinion, what about Pete Buttigieg is non viable, would you consider voting for him as an alternative to some of the more extreme positions in the Democratic party?Supporter: To me, it is first of all because I was infuriated by the democrats attitude against Kavanaugh and I didnt even like the guy as a pick (too close to Bush).I Like Buttieig but right now he has embraced a lot of the progressive stances on trans right, And illegal immigrants being offered healthcare and decriminalizing it.I think he has a lot of charisma and i Hope he comes back in 2024 when the democrats calm down a little bit and become more moderate, id be happy with him as a president after. He has a very uniting message on a few occasions.
I am still unhappy to see Trump send more troop in the Middle east and hope that this is only temporary.
I consider myself an ardent supporter and directly going into war with Iran would make me a lot less of an advocate for Trump (even if i dont see democrats as viable for 2 decades).
...
Nonsupporter: I'm just curious for your opinion, what about Pete Buttigieg is non viable, would you consider voting for him as an alternative to some of the more extreme positions in the Democratic party?
Supporter: To me, it is first of all because I was infuriated by the democrats attitude against Kavanaugh and I didnt even like the guy as a pick (too close to Bush).
I Like Buttieig but right now he has embraced a lot of the progressive stances on trans right, And illegal immigrants being offered healthcare and decriminalizing it.
I think he has a lot of charisma and i Hope he comes back in 2024 when the democrats calm down a little bit and become more moderate, id be happy with him as a president after. He has a very uniting message on a few occasions.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 4 January 2020 22:33 (four years ago) link
That's pretty good compared to most social media political discourse imo.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Saturday, 4 January 2020 22:44 (four years ago) link
Sadly otm.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 4 January 2020 22:45 (four years ago) link
Speaking of reddit, there's also the following attempt at civility:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/
― pomenitul, Saturday, 4 January 2020 22:47 (four years ago) link
that conversation was kind of the guy politely saying "I'm a piece of garbage and I don't like Trump except I seem to be pretty cozy to everything he believes in and does"
― papa stank (Neanderthal), Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:10 (four years ago) link
not willing to throw a bone cos they didn't say "libtard"
Do you really need a reddit board to read an endless stream of bullshit talking points fed by Fox News and friends?
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:17 (four years ago) link
'Deep down, I don't like Trump, but the Dems have forced me into it with their xenotransloving ways!'
This really is as good as it gets, ladies and gentlemen.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:17 (four years ago) link
There was a lot better on the reddit but at least 1st person was applying an actual principle, not just hero-worship, and willing to be critical of Trump when he breached it.2xp
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:19 (four years ago) link
That reads to me more "I like Trump but am afraid to say so" given that they always seem to blame Dems for pushing them into his arms.
Might not be hero worship, but shows them adopting right wing talking points, believing in liberal stereotypes, while simultaneously somehow managing to avoid believing the conservative stereotypes.
― papa stank (Neanderthal), Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:25 (four years ago) link
i mean I get what you're saying, compared to the usual discourse, it IS more restrained and less jingoist vitriol, but it still strikes me as the type of bad faith arguing that would have gotten me in people's faces in 2004. it's just now there are more levels to this ugliness.
― papa stank (Neanderthal), Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:30 (four years ago) link
It's the same old loathsome, cretinous bullshit as ever, no doubt about it, we're just at a point where we need to consider different shades of excrement in the faint hope that a change of heart could happen.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:36 (four years ago) link
(I say 'we' even though I'm lucky not to be living in the US at the moment. Tbf this kind of homicidal idiocy exists everywhere and it's spreading as we speak.)
― pomenitul, Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:38 (four years ago) link
This one was really O_O to me:
Nonsupporter: Do you think the right-wing media would have been applauding if Obama or Hillary had done this?Some few pundits might have cynically and reflexively opposed it out of rank partisanship, but they would have eaten a lot of shit from their own audiences had they done so. Any right-wing talking head who criticized Obama for taking out an infamously bloody-handed, state-sponsored terrorist like Suleimani would have been roundly denounced as a media-planted RINO cuck.I imagine most would have taken the 'Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day' angle. We didn't think of Obama as Hitler 2.0, so giving him a well-deserved high-five when he did something right (like assassinating Bin Laden) wasn't seen as unforgivable heresy, unlike the Left and Trump these days...
Some few pundits might have cynically and reflexively opposed it out of rank partisanship, but they would have eaten a lot of shit from their own audiences had they done so. Any right-wing talking head who criticized Obama for taking out an infamously bloody-handed, state-sponsored terrorist like Suleimani would have been roundly denounced as a media-planted RINO cuck.
I imagine most would have taken the 'Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day' angle. We didn't think of Obama as Hitler 2.0, so giving him a well-deserved high-five when he did something right (like assassinating Bin Laden) wasn't seen as unforgivable heresy, unlike the Left and Trump these days...
What kind of right-wing media was he paying attention to from 08-16?
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Saturday, 4 January 2020 23:53 (four years ago) link
When it comes to tribe loyalty, this is a classic post from two years ago:
https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7bts5x/roy_moore_is_refusing_to_debate_his_democratic/dpkyfco/
― pomenitul, Sunday, 5 January 2020 00:02 (four years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7rFIZUUwAEbmPE.jpg
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Sunday, 5 January 2020 00:04 (four years ago) link
lmao right wing media absolutely did not applaud Obama for getting Bin Laden
in fact a number of them not so subtly suggested that the body was fake and that the real Bin Laden had been dead for years
― frogbs, Sunday, 5 January 2020 00:05 (four years ago) link
So this is pretty fucking disgusting and any “news network” that carries this shit should be destroyed
TRUMP: "These people hate Israel -- they hate Jewish people. I won't name them. I won't bring up the name of Omar, Tlaib, AOC -- I won't bring that name up. Won't bring it up." pic.twitter.com/jCrySCb1Ag— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) January 3, 2020
― frogbs, Sunday, 5 January 2020 00:11 (four years ago) link
ugh
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 5 January 2020 00:19 (four years ago) link
A guy I worked with at the time claimed Obama nothing at all to do with the mission, and it was Panetta all the way.
I imagine this guy now thinks that Trump himself is taking on secret missions to the Middle East and taking out terrorists himself, with his own bare not-small-at-all hands.
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 5 January 2020 01:49 (four years ago) link
Graham threatens to 'take matters in our own hands' if Pelosi doesn't send articles of impeachment to Senate. "My goal is to start this trial in the next coming days, not let [House Speaker] Nancy Pelosi take over the Senate," Graham said....
Currently, no trial can begin until the articles come through. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has said he wants the Senate to follow the parameters of then-President Bill Clinton's impeachment trial: an initial agreement to first hear the case and then a later vote on whether to call witnesses....
Graham's idea isn't the only GOP proposal aimed at breaking the impasse. On Thursday, Sen. Josh Hawley, R-Mo., tweeted that he will introduce a resolution Monday to change impeachment rules so that the Senate can dismiss the articles of impeachment Trump faces
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/graham-threatens-take-matters-our-own-hands-if-pelosi-doesn-n1110651
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 5 January 2020 21:48 (four years ago) link
graham going full totalitarian. he's so ecstatic that his iran war might finally happen that he's willing to do anything to please trump
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Sunday, 5 January 2020 22:02 (four years ago) link
thread
1) The United States is an empire. This shouldn't be controversial, but let's get it out of the way; empires don't all look alike, they do different things with different goals and approaches and technologies, and nobody who studies empires thinks the US isn't one.— Patrick Wyman (@Patrick_Wyman) January 5, 2020
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 January 2020 02:42 (four years ago) link
It's really weird. Denmark isn't an elite, and yet we have a fucked up ruling elite as well. So so weird. Almost like that thread is complete nonsense.
― Frederik B, Monday, 6 January 2020 10:23 (four years ago) link
Denmark is not an empire
You’ve still got Greenland.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 6 January 2020 10:47 (four years ago) link
... and the Faroe Isles?
― Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 6 January 2020 10:53 (four years ago) link
That's 100.000 people. That's no empire. We're a colonial power, sure.
― Frederik B, Monday, 6 January 2020 10:55 (four years ago) link
u r really dumber than your reputation, amazing
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 January 2020 12:43 (four years ago) link
wow sounds bad pic.twitter.com/Hrr8neNnWj— jordan (@JordanUhl) January 3, 2020
Just, if people don't know, the US isn't in the top 15 when it comes to Military spending / Total government spending. It's 9% according to the World Bank. Which is a lot, it's 2,3% in Denmark. But it's not why you don't have M4A. In Israel it's 11,1%, and afaik, Israel has better social services. Anti-imperialism is just the completely wrong way to look at this.
― Frederik B, Monday, 6 January 2020 13:58 (four years ago) link
interesting. the CBO thinks it's about 14.8%
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 6 January 2020 14:13 (four years ago) link
Link?
― Frederik B, Monday, 6 January 2020 14:24 (four years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States
The U.S. Department of Defense budget accounted in fiscal year 2017 for about 14.8% of the United States federal budgeted expenditures. According to the Congressional Budget Office, defense spending grew 9% annually on average from fiscal year 2000–2009.[43]
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 6 January 2020 14:33 (four years ago) link
Hm, the note there leads to a completely different report, and the first sentence doesn't actually seem to be according to the CBO. I can't see where that claim comes from?
― Frederik B, Monday, 6 January 2020 14:39 (four years ago) link
I shall do it. Give me a minute, ok?
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 1 February 2020 17:46 (four years ago) link
It is done, to quote a well-known member of the trinity.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 1 February 2020 17:50 (four years ago) link