Why are demands about male sexual performance quite so acceptable?

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i've had plenty of men talk w/me about women who were 'bad lays

But you thought they were assholes, right?

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 14 February 2003 16:46 (twenty-three years ago)

No one wants their friends to think they put up with someone who's no good in bed.

Or else the males realize "the sex was bad" will be taken as "I was bad in bed."

bnw (bnw), Friday, 14 February 2003 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Can no one see that a woman can be bad in bed just as a man can? Sex is not just about thrusting.

Is it? Is it?

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 16:51 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm past caring, tbh.

g-kit (g-kit), Friday, 14 February 2003 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Sex is not just about thrusting. Is it? Is it?

That's called BAD sex.

Sarah McLusky (coco), Friday, 14 February 2003 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

But if there aint no thrusting at all, that can be bad too, right?

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:06 (twenty-three years ago)

That's called TANTRIC sex?

Sarah Mclusky (coco), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Or can't get it up sex.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

N. don't talk about the FORBIDDEN SUBJECT!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry - DO NOT READ THE POST ABOVE!

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:12 (twenty-three years ago)

No one wants their friends to think they put up with someone who's no good in bed.

Joking aside…

I don't talk to my friends about sexual specifics in the first place and I would certainly never tell anyone if my partner and I were having difficulties. I have no problem discussing general wants, desires and preferences but I would never reveal things about my partner (past or present) that I thought would upset him or that I thought would change people's perception of him. I would not be embarrassed and I wouldn’t think it was necessarily a result of a weakness in my sexual technique.

I have had some partners who would be considered more technically proficient (I couldn’t think of a better way to put it) than others, just as some of my partners would be considered better looking than others. The only time I have ever had, what I consider to be, bad sex was once when I slept with a chap who thought he was Casanova and seemed to have choreographed every move from the couch to the bedroom. It was bad as he seemed to be ‘getting off on how good he was at having sex’, rather than just ‘having sex’.

To be quite honest, if the guy is physically comfortable with me and treats me tenderly I don’t care whether he’s goodin bed or not. I just want him to be in bed with me. And if he needs to bring a dildo, that’s fine.

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Impotence and fear of it really are the spectres haunting this thread. My wife works in the urology department for a pharmaceutical company that's just released a new drug for erectile dysfunction (as it's euphemized) -- when she tells people this, they all tell funny jokes -- then, inevitably, all the men ask (seriously, in a whisper)if she can swing them some samples.

This is all to say that demands on male sexual performance tend to be placed there by men.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I would like to think that my partner and I could work through an issue like this together: experimenting with Viagra, seeking medical advice, using toys - whatever we are both comfortable with.

It's important that we both be fulfilled sexually but not if that involves putting wither of us under emotional pressure. I can't stress this enough.


Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Unfortunate use of 'wither' in place of 'either'.

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:19 (twenty-three years ago)

The men I know never complain. This is because they are scared of the women. Possibly. Thank God today is National Impotency Day.

Ally C (Ally C), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:19 (twenty-three years ago)

My wife would insist that I mention to Lara that there are are alternatives to Viagra. Ask your doctor or pharmacist!

/shill

Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Colin, I know there are alternatives. I merely meant to give examples of a couple of avenues that could be explored if the couple decided they wanted to investigate.

I taped a Horizon last night, did anyone watch it?

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:55 (twenty-three years ago)

wouldn't it be easier to just ask the hookers directly?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:57 (twenty-three years ago)

"I have no problem discussing general wants" reached my awful eyes as "I have no problem discussing genital warts."

Growl growl I think my point here wasn't to do some big "how unfair waah waah double standard against men" thing, but it WAS indeed to talk about how men and women approach this issue differently and how that affects the end experience for everyone. I hate that it's impossible to talk about general gender-based differences like this without everyone thinking you're picking on one of the sexes or making some big political point about unfair treatment. I just meant that in my personal experience I do see certain differences in the way men and women approach these things, and I do see some areas where both sexes construe something as something it doesn't have to be (e.g. sex as a male performance) and I'm curious about that.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Also I completely agree with Colin that the performance demands are put there largely by men -- at least to the same extent that plenty of women's appearance and behavior demands are put there by women; just two more ways we convince ourselves that it's Really Important to others that we do [X], when in fact [X] isn't really the point to anyone.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

(Lara: I was just being a shill. I know you know, I'm just curious to see if my wife's product is entering the vocabulary yet.)

Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:08 (twenty-three years ago)

So, er, do women actually talk about performance as much as popcult would have us believe?

mark p (Mark P), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Catching up on all the thread's various topics here ...

The only friends of mine who've commented one way or the other on a partner's ability or habits in bed have been female -- but the vast majority of my friends are female, as are all of the closest ones, so I don't think that says anything.

For my part, I've only discussed sex-I've-had with people-I-wasn't-having-it-with twice: once after the first time I had sex (well, the first two times, I guess), to casually/furtively ask an older friend, "So how long does it generally last, anyway?"; and once when my partner was reacting in a way that I thought was strange, which turned out to be probably the foreshadowing of her eventual nervous breakdown. In both cases, the folks I talked to were female, but again, that's just the demographics of my friends.

I tend not to discuss sexual specifics with friends because I realized a long time ago that I really don't want to know about their sex lives (partly because there's so much ... cross-pollination ... among my groups of friends that knowing X insists on Y means knowing Z did Y and therefore C is doing it now -- learn one thing about one person, and I've got a dozen people's sexual histories staring at me) -- so I figure, I won't open the window myself. This gets me a lot of teasing since I write smut for money :)

Bad sex -- there's definitely bad sex and there're definitely bad blowjobs, and I've actually gotten into short-lived arguments about this with male friends ("if you got a bad blowjob, you were doing something wrong!" -- I realize it's not entirely passive to be on the receiving end, but really, without employing props or a theme song, I'm not sure what I could do to completely ruin a blowjob).

Impotence -- am I the first to come out of the impotence closet? How swell. I can do the blustery "it's not my fault" thing, though -- it's a side effect of post-surgical nerve damage which has been slow to heal. Viagra has worked enough wonders that I haven't looked at alternatives (but feel free to suggest some, Colin.) My biggest concern was that it would ruin the spontaneity, but the guessing game of "Am I going to have sex soon? Should I take the pill?" has actually been fun.

Tep (ktepi), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I can only answer for me (and my female friends) and the answer is no. I am as close to my sister as I can imagine being to any other human being but I would never, ever discuss specifics as I'm revealing things that my partner might not be comfortable with her knowing.

Perhaps other girls talk about nothing else, I don't know.

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I know this isn't really a performance thing, but even among perfectly lovely, non-bitchy women, I have known it to be standard practice for them to ask (and tell) each other how big a new partner's dick is. I don't know if it's just a complete joke that means nothing. Women and their crazy humour!

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know if it's just a complete joke that means nothing.

Are you talking about your penis?

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, it's a continuum.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:20 (twenty-three years ago)

You're saying you are a penis?

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:21 (twenty-three years ago)

He's saying his penis is a continuum.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Shilling again, to Tep: if spontaneity is a concern, the new product coming soon from a VERY evil American pharma company (and already available in Europe and Australia) is the drug for YOU! But I can say no more...

Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Continuum: A continuous extent, succession, or whole, no part of which can be distinguished from neighboring parts except by arbitrary division.

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I suspect that if dudes have well-honed skillz (i.e. sensitivity to partner's needs) in other departments, the shh.... i-word isn't as big a deal. But then I wouldn't really know because I'm a goddamn stud.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Does all this joking about continuums stem from my post on one of the Gay threads about sexuality being a continuum? (oh, silly me, thinking I'm the center of it all)

Sarah McLusky (coco), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:26 (twenty-three years ago)

And for the record I don't discuss the size of my partner's penis with anyone either. Not even with the priest at confession.

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Shilling again, to Tep: if spontaneity is a concern, the new product coming soon from a VERY evil American pharma company (and already available in Europe and Australia) is the drug for YOU! But I can say no more...

Well good golly, now I'm curious. I assume I'll know it when I see the ads ...

Tep (ktepi), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:28 (twenty-three years ago)

It'll be in your face.

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:29 (twenty-three years ago)

y'all realise that it is actually Male Impotence Awareness Day?

jel -- (jel), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:29 (twenty-three years ago)

"Darling, I come bearing flowers. That is all."

Lara (Lara), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:30 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, I mean National Impotence Day!

jel -- (jel), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:31 (twenty-three years ago)

And for the record I don't discuss the size of my partner's penis with anyone either. Not even with the priest at confession.

No wonder there are so many sad priests.

(Bearing flowers is the oddest impotency cure I've heard of to date, BTW.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:31 (twenty-three years ago)

You're thinking of clowns, Dan.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Was there not something here about young people coming to us old people for sexual training? Listen, I'm 43 and I'm right here for you all...

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 14 February 2003 23:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks for the generous and selfless offer, Martin - send me the plane tix and I'll show-up on your doorstep *grin*

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Friday, 14 February 2003 23:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Damn, I am non-rich. Look, I know there are loads of hot young ILXers in the UK...

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 15 February 2003 00:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Where are the young yet legal aged US ILX guys that need an old lady like the BurmaKitty to make things right for them? I really want to do my part to prevent this upcoming war. I think this may be the solution right here.

oh...is my husband reading this thread?

Really, Honey, I was just trying to help...

BurmaKitty (BurmaKitty), Saturday, 15 February 2003 05:46 (twenty-three years ago)

To wit: male and female mouths are pretty similar, and yet rhetorically speaking kissing gets cast as a male performance ("he was/wasn't a good kisser") more so than a female one

This is so wrong. Male and female mouths, from a kissing point of view, are extremely different. Women, in general, have narrower lips, narrower mouth, softer lips, smaller teeth, teeth closer to lips, less prominent chins, less prominent noses, soft skin around lips, no bristley facial hair around lips, smaller tongues, less inclination towards shoving their tongue down your throat, less likely to attempt to devour you: lips first, less inclination towards sucking your tongue so hard you want to hit them and less likely to kiss brutally at all.

In my experience it is very rare for a women to be a bad kisser and not at all uncommon for males to be.

toraneko (toraneko), Saturday, 15 February 2003 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

YOU SAID IT Toraneko!

BurmaKitty (BurmaKitty), Saturday, 15 February 2003 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I've kissed my share of men and women, and I haven't found female bad kissers much less common than male ones, though women are less often bad at it in an aggressively unpleasant way.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 15 February 2003 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

three weeks pass...
I've met women who were bad kissers both on the unpleasantly aggressive side and on the extremely passive side.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 10 March 2003 19:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Absolutely, and I have too - but I'd stand by my observation, which did say "less often" rather than "never".

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 10 March 2003 20:09 (twenty-three years ago)


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