star wars 9 spoilers and postmortem shit talk

She jokingly called Chewie her boyfriend in TFA so...yep.i did too

clearly what this movie needed was a post-victory celebration inspired by the end of Society

Maz was pretty pointless in this movie.

Oh btw confirmed..the line is "Knights of Ren... ghouls!"

...Although I always forget that Chewie is husband and father

This Trilogy really upped the violence a bit. Strangely, arm severing was always kosher in the OG trilogy, but anybody shot by a laser merely fell over like they were playing cops and robbers. No blood, no entry wounds.

There's blood in the first ten mins of TFA, sabers are used to impale over and over. You see entry points when lasers pierce Stormtrooper armor, there's an off-screen BEHEADING in the new one. You even see Ren's gross exposed innards briefly after Rey kills him and before restoring him.

Idk if i coulda handled that as a 9 year old. Obv that's why it's PG-13, which Revenge of the Sith started, but I feel like 98% of that rating came from the dismemberment on Mustafar, as well as Padme force choke and off-screen Youngling murders

agree with that. i could have done without any of the impalings tbh, partic han’s.

Also the scene where Rey cut off Palpatine's head, then wore it like a mask and ran around to everyone yelling "Look at meeeeee, I'm Palpatineeeeeee" was a bit much

The final scene with Rey and Kylo, kiss excluded, got me at the end on rewatch. It's the first time he's been, free of burden, free of pretense, and it shows in Driver's face

Oh btw confirmed..the line is "Knights of Ren... ghouls!"

I WAS SAYING GHOUL-URNS

Lol

Things in the film that were pretty good but not mentioned above:

The opening crawl - "The Dead Speak!" is the other end of the galaxy from "Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute."

The Valerianish skip through various worlds by the Falcon near the start - I hope it was an intentional joke that each of the worlds that we see for like 20 seconds is full of vertical gaps just large enough for the Falcon.

Also mentioned above that Palpatine's life support is properly icky, but also, as per one of the more distant shots, enormous, extending up and behind him for 100s of feet - it reminded me of GLaDOS from Portal.

The C-3PO story is a good mix of touching and solid slapstick - I think he's actually harder to get right than a lot of people think, and he did well here. Plus also a few seconds of red eyes, for fans of 0-0-0.

What i liked about the light speed skipping is that it proved Han right for being so maddeningly precise with his light speed coordinates

they've spent like 5 minutes together by the end of 3 movies

― ciderpress, Monday, December 23, 2019 8:49 AM bookmarkflaglink

Hell, Poe didn't even introduce himself to Rey until the end of TLJ!

xp i remember qui-gon and darth maul's deaths in 1 having a lot of visual impact as a kid because they were more raw than anything in the OT and now it's just standard stuff

The C-3PO story is a good mix of touching and solid slapstick - I think he's actually harder to get right than a lot of people think, and he did well here. Plus also a few seconds of red eyes, for fans of 0-0-0.

Agree with all this… Threepio wasn’t annoying in this movie! (He was noticeably a little thicker around the middle, LOL)

My favorite “callback” was Rey saying, “I care...”

ANH had those grisly scenes of Walrus Man's* arm being cut off and Owen and Beru's corpses, and there are a couple of Imperial officers left with smoking wounds after blaster shots to the chest, but after that it was all very toned down.

I have a lot of *thoughts* about this movie and want to see it again but a few things:

- I don't mind retcons, Star Wars is practically 100% composed of retcons; and I don't mind twists and surprises, but I feel like Abrams really did make two big mistakes here both in undermining one of the most challenging ideas in the SW universe regarding the Force and heroes; and by having his retcon rely on the existence of a character whose existence could not possibly have been inferred via any of the previous material. If anything, everything we've ever been shown completely contradicts the very possibility.

- That said, at least they stuck with some evidence that Finn is Force-sensitive, if not to the point that he'd ever develop "Jedi powers."

- Finn's backstory, and now Naomi Ackie's whole group being composed of former stormtroopers, SHOULD have led to some different storytelling beats, but it seemed to go nowhere. (A lot of the Discourse among a segment of the fandom really thought that that Finn was going to lead some kind of stormtrooper rebellion in this movie.)

- There's also significant discussion on Twitter that the ending of this film was changed very, very late in the game and that Ben was not supposed to die. There's evidence from interviews throughout shooting that this is probably the case, and there are a lot of very pissed off Reylos out there.

- Bless this franchise for having Warwick Davis put on an uncomfortable Ewok costume literally for 2 seconds of shooting.

- Movie needed more Artoo. EVERYTHING needs more Artoo.

- ROSE TICO GOT DONE DIRTY.

I also liked the decision for Keri Russell to not take off of her helmet. I can see why it feels like "oh come on!", but she does some really great emoting with her eyes in that scene.

Poe constantly trying to fuck her was a little off tho

undermining one of the most challenging ideas in the SW universe regarding the Force and heroes

Elaborate on this?

I didn't like what they did to Rose yeah.

I think Ren dying was the only thing that made sense. Rey killed him, then saved him with his lifeforce, he returned the favor. also he is a mass murderer so....Star Wars doesn't really do moral ambiguity other than the Methodist Christianity of "I begged forgiveness for all of my sins shortly before dying so now I'm one with the Force".

*her lifeforce

Yeah I’m glad Ben died. It was nice that he redeemed himself, but it would’ve been weird if he had gotten to live on. Also, the ending would’ve had no residence if there was another actual Skywalker still alive.

*resonance

unless we're talking about a different "rise" of Skywalker amirite

really when it comes to the universe, the only movies in this series with any sort of tight, intricate plotting is the prequels, and we know how those went.

I think this movie made more sense (even if Palpatine was completely unnecessary, and the least interesting thing about the movie) than it originally let it, it's just Abrams's predilection to not letting things breathe and throwing so much at you in a short period of time that you miss important details. that's not "being cerebral", that's "being a journeyman director who wrote that piece of shit Forever Young with Mel Gibson".

*let on, Christ I cannot type today.

undermining one of the most challenging ideas in the SW universe regarding the Force and heroes

Elaborate on this?

― The dead speak! (morrisp), Monday, December 23, 2019 1:33 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Johnson's whole thesis in TLJ was that the Force does not belong to the Jedi, that it works through everyone, that anyone can be a hero, or even just connect to the Force in ways large and small. Luke refers mockingly to the "mighty Skywalker blood," and the story makes explicit that Rey's heroism and strength stem in part from her anonymity and nobody-ness.

This movie contradicts that completely, not only by making her a Palpatine, but by her only finding the strength to defeat Palpatine once she hears the voices of all the Jedi of the past telling her, "You can do eet!"

This is cool, though:

pic.twitter.com/wVDTt9fTeL

— Lex (@lexie_labollita) December 23, 2019

Hmm, I’ll have to think about that…

For a second there, I thought Ben was gonna commit Seppuku in the scene with Han (instead, he threw the lightsaber away).

Ben Solo's shrug <3

Adam Driver is so weird looking and yet so hot, he shoudn't be allowed in a Star War, it's distracting.

(jk, Kylo Ren would never have worked with a lesser actor)

was that Johnson's thesis, or Luke's thesis? Luke says that, and makes a good point (it's a great allegory for how Christianity has tried to usurp authority over secular society, with Luke trying to promote religious tolerance), but don't we get the idea Luke is relenting a little bit by movie's end? I figure he'd still believe that the force doesn't solely "belong" to the Jedi, and that other groups may also use it to do good things, but that he's at least relented on the idea that the Jedi can't be trusted with it and actually believes the Jedi can be restored and use its power in a positive way.

Not only does he rejoin the fight, and he says emphatically that he will not be the last Jedi, implying that Rey will continue her Jedi training. That to me would at least suggest that he's gone back a LITTLE bit on his disdain. even if he wasn't completely wrong about the failures of the Jedi, clearly he had at least a partial change of heart.

Some saw his "I was wrong" in this movie as a middle finger to RJ, but I didn't think so. Luke WAS wrong; the debate between haters and supporters of TLJ wasn't whether Luke was right or wrong to go into exile, but whether it was *plausible* that he would do it. I always felt it was completely plausible that he'd lose his religion and flee - Yoda did it too! But that didn't make it honorable or "right" to do so. that's why he redeemed himself at the end.

the only reason she needed the strength of all of the Jedi to beat Palpatine was because he was supposedly using the strength of all of the Sith. it was a classic Lucas homage of a good-evil battle, so on-the-nose and over the top, Georgie probably would have came if he saw it.

Yeah, I don’t think it necessarily contradicts the idea that the Force works through anyone (and that anyone can be a hero); but it does provide an explanation for why the Force is so strong in Rey (even though her entry into the storyline was kind of “coincidental”).

Luke may have mocked the Skywalker bloodline, but it really was powerful, wasn’t it?

Like I said, I do need to see it again, but I did like it! (But I still think Rey Palpatine just ain't it. She could've remained Rey Nobody and the story would have the same effect.)

I mean, don't get me wrong, TLJ was a far better movie and it is of course disappointing that we went back to Fan Service Abrams (not that Trevorrow would have done much better - he co-wrote this script and he is responsible for those Jurassic abortions).

I didn't need her to be a Palpatine, and the whole Emperor Redux wasn't necessary and probably the least interesting bit of the film.

I'm guessing Abrams and Trevorrow couldn't find a way in their widdle minds to explain how the Resistance could build its ranks back up and provide a significant challenge to the First Order, so they came up with the Emperor to distract both sides.

as much as I enjoyed this sequel trilogy (and it's pretty obvious I did), I was always let down about how it became Empire vs Rebels part deux.

I always felt there were plenty of other angles they could have explored. Like Kylo Ren didn't have to be a Solo/Skywalker - what if he was a young Jedi that became radicalized, was shunned from his community, and became a terrorist that caused unrest within the Galaxy?

Or if you're hellbent on wanting him to be a Solo/Skywalker, why couldn't his defection and Luke's exile have been the source of the first movie? Why couldn't TFA have been about THAT?

I guess I wanted to see more of the Republic on the back foot. The Rebels are used to being the underdogs, now they've vanquished their enemy, and the good guys are the people in power. How do they rule and quell any potential uprisings?

once TFA recycled the Empire, it kind of painted the story into a corner. the books and comics did a nice job of actually detailing the birth of the First Order, but if I had a do-over, I woulda liked different scopes.

I have to say I never thought at age 12 I'd be having these conversations as a near-40 year old, lol. really did look like the sequels were never getting made.

didn't Han's kid also defect to the dark side and become a Sith in the (now Legends) books? Jacen Solo?

Or if you're hellbent on wanting him to be a Solo/Skywalker, why couldn't his defection and Luke's exile have been the source of the first movie? Why couldn't TFA have been about THAT?

This probably would have felt like Anakin/Obi-Wan redux.

Yes, and is killed by his twin sister to boot.

xp

hmm, good point. maybe it could have been about Kylo Ren being a bookmaker and he gets in over his head and takes out a loan from Goombah the Hutt

not that Trevorrow would have done much better - he co-wrote this script

lol no

the credits say Abrams and Terrio. the Writers Guild gave Trevorrow and Connolly co-writer credit as well so despite what Abrams claimed about starting from scratch, I'm willing to bet he used elements of his original treatment.

I fought with your father in the Guild wars

I liked the rescue droid. BB-8 and that thing should get their own show with Babu Frik.

Story credit with an "and" does not mean "wrote the script," and p explicitly means did not write the script. Seems most likely that they were given the credit as compensation for being fired, next most likely that their script included enough things like "Rey and Finn fight stormtroopers with lasers" and "Chewbacca flies the Millennium Falcon" that they were able to arbitrate, with "wrote the script but enough dialogue was changed that they were downgraded to story credit" a very distant third.

I didn't feel like Rose was particularly sidelined in this movie... especially considering how the story jumped around, and didn't focus much on Resistance HQ. Rose's role, and her friendship w/Finn, remained a focus (and she seemed to have more lines than, say, Lando).

But I also understand how the character took on a particular significance after the ugly side of the TLJ backlash.

xpost cool, go post about dementia spasms

I mean Rose was very specifically positioned as a love interest for Finn, and in this movie he gives her nothing more than a friendly shoulder squeeze before once again deciding to stay behind and launch one less desperate attack. To me it's dropping a narrative thread in an especially lazy (and ugly) way given the way Kelly Marie Tran was treated by alt-right creeps for two years.

Film Crit Hulk has some words: https://www.patreon.com/posts/32504876

I can see that POV; though I’m also not sure how much further their love story could’ve been developed.