Damon Lindelof's Watchmen

Also, Trieu might have been smart, but she didn't learn her father's best lesson: only explain your master plan after its been accomplished.

Yeah, the most puzzling part about the finale was, why did Trieu tell Angela in episode 7 that the 7th Kavalry knows Jon is living on Earth? Since we now know Trieu already knew Cal was Jon, why reveal that info, since it might lead into Cal and Angela going into hiding?

Other things that bugged that may or may not be answered in season 2:

- If Trieu's mom hated Veidt so much, why did she inseminate her with his sperm? Was the plan that she could sue him for alimony and her kid would eventually inherit him, or what?

- If Jon did transfer his powers to the egg, how was he able to teleport Laurie, Adrian, and Looking Class into Antarctica after that? And kill all those 7th Kavalry members in the previous ep? And we saw Trieu's machine registered some kind of power in him that siphoned away, so what was that about, if the power was in the egg already?

- How long did it take for Veidt to get bored on Europa? If he set up the Game Warden to be his adversary. that must've been quite early during his stay, because the GW was already around when he started catapulting the corpses for his message.

- How did all those Cyclops member come to agree that Keene Jr. was the one who deserved to get Dr. Manhattan's power? Why not Keene Sr. or one of the other more senior members?

- All those 7th Kavalry members are there when Keene is explaining how they've used basically as cannon fodder. Are none of them gonna question that?

If Jon did transfer his powers to the egg, how was he able to teleport Laurie, Adrian, and Looking Class into Antarctica after that?

It was never stated (iirc) that said transfer would sap him of his powers.

lol Lindeloff basically admitted that he was replicating the ending of Inception

Or rather, replicating the open ending of the comic book. It's up for the reader to decide whether or not they pick up Rorschach's journal / whether or not Angela got the powers.

Laurie suddenly deciding that Veidt needs to be arrested

We don't know if it was that sudden... Veidt disappeared over 10 years ago, maybe Laurie changed her mind during that time period, regretted that Veidt had most likely died and she couldn't bring him to justice, and now, as soon as she finds out Veidt's still alive, and after the immediate threat is over, she finally gets to arrest him.

It was never stated (iirc) that said transfer would sap him of his powers.

Yeah, I thought of that, but why not give everyone his powers then? Or at least give them to Angela earlier?

if you were Doc Manhattan would you give everyone your powers?

If Trieu's mom hated Veidt so much, why did she inseminate her with his sperm? Was the plan that she could sue him for alimony and her kid would eventually inherit him, or what?

This was dumb. But I had the sense she knew his thing about not wanting children and was doing it to spite him. Or I guess she assumed that her child would inherit his brain power.

If Jon did transfer his powers to the egg, how was he able to teleport Laurie, Adrian, and Looking Class into Antarctica after that? And kill all those 7th Kavalry members in the previous ep? And we saw Trieu's machine registered some kind of power in him that siphoned away, so what was that about, if the power was in the egg already?

Last episode they explain that Jon could give someone powers through an egg, but not that he would lose his powers while doing it iirc

How long did it take for Veidt to get bored on Europa? If he set up the Game Warden to be his adversary. that must've been quite early during his stay, because the GW was already around when he started catapulting the corpses for his message.

I would guess a week or so.

How did all those Cyclops member come to agree that Keene Jr. was the one who deserved to get Dr. Manhattan's power? Why not Keene Sr. or one of the other more senior members?

I kind of doubt we'll get much more about the decision making of the Hillbilluminati

All those 7th Kavalry members are there when Keene is explaining how they've used basically as cannon fodder. Are none of them gonna question that?

Doesn't matter now. But if his plan had worked Keene would probably have destroyed anyone who had a problem.

Veidt's arrest was the most slapstick moment of the series (the abrupt cut-off of the swelling music, and I think he actually said "oof")

Liked the cheesy bit where the only letters of the Dreamland theatre sign left after the squid hail are Dr M

Laurie suddenly deciding that Veidt needs to be arrested

We don't know if it was that sudden... Veidt disappeared over 10 years ago, maybe Laurie changed her mind during that time period, regretted that Veidt had most likely died and she couldn't bring him to justice, and now, as soon as she finds out Veidt's still alive, and after the immediate threat is over, she finally gets to arrest him.

Well, it wasn't like she was out there telling everyone that the Squid attack was a fake. She also made the arrest before Mirror Face produced the evidence, so it was just going to be her word.

going back over the eps, I'd rank 'em something like

6 > 8 > 3 > 1 > 7 > 5 > 2 > 9 > 4

Wasn't 4 the Laurie episode?

That was one of my favourites

Anyway, IMO this episode basically confirmed my earlier thoughts that it was a mistake to make this series into a Watchmen sequel rather than to keep it as original alternate history story. As Mordy points out, the whole racism/police/justice plot that made the early episodes so good was mostly sidelined in favour of the "who gets Manhattan's powers" plot, and the (white) comic book characters mostly stole the show from the one (black) protagonist that was original to the series. Even Trieu turned out to be related to one of the comic book characters, and motivated by his relation to him. So yeah, it was still quite good fanfiction, but it would've had potential for much more, if it hadn't been fanfiction.

that was 3 xp

in the end i thought this was kind of inert and unnecessary. the stuff about liberal hegemony and racist conspiracy was hamfisted. started out strong and then got lost

started out strong and then got lost

― goole, Monday, December 16, 2019 12:07 PM (nineteen seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol

do you see.

The Leftovers remains a towering achievement

I wouldn't go that far; ending was a little flat but it didn't diminish what came before to me; this wasn't one of those instances where the ending felt like it was meant as the overall conceit

Laurie suddenly deciding that Veidt needs to be arrested

We don't know if it was that sudden... Veidt disappeared over 10 years ago, maybe Laurie changed her mind during that time period, regretted that Veidt had most likely died and she couldn't bring him to justice, and now, as soon as she finds out Veidt's still alive, and after the immediate threat is over, she finally gets to arrest him.

Well, it wasn't like she was out there telling everyone that the Squid attack was a fake. She also made the arrest before Mirror Face produced the evidence, so it was just going to be her word.

Without Veidt, no one would believe her. We know that Rorshach's journal was published, and most people have written it off as a loony conspiracy theory. But maybe she thinks that by arresting Veidt, she can get her to confess. Also, while they're still in his lair, she can get all the physical evidence she needs, like the squid machine. So it's the perfect time and place to arrest him.

"she can get him to confess"

I liked Looking Glass' "does everyone in the FBI know?!"

Veidt's arrest was the most slapstick moment of the series

"That guy talks too much" was pretty funny

hah, the FBI line, too

lots of good mirror guy humor

just Mulder

i could just listen to tim blake nelson say shit in that accent for a while

We are pretty much led to believe by this week's Peteypedia that Laurie's arrest of Veidt is getting hushed up by the FBI

I guess my biggest overall issue was the baffling need to keep this to nine eps when 12 would have both matched the original run and provided just about the right amount of time to sufficiently explore the missing or insufficient backstory elements (eg Trieu's motivations) and/or give us a little more time with the most interesting second-stringers.

I thought there was just enough Trieu content and I don't really care about more backstory!

9 episodes because it's all about family. The egg ties into that, too.

Eggs come in dozens

The comic book had a pattern where every other issue was a "plot issue", moving the main plot forward, followed by a "character issue", where they focused on the past and motivations of one of the protagonists. I thought they were doing something similar here, but then they had the Hooded Justice episode right after the Looking Class one, and then the Jon episode right after the Angela one, so I guess not.

Though obviously they did do the same as the comic by leaving the antagonist's backstory for the last, because earlier we didn't even know he/she was the antagonist.

Thinking about the supposedly open ending, I think it's pretty clear Jon did put his powers into the egg, because in the previous ep he was walking on the water of the pool, and then he said "this will mean something to you later" or something like that. Why would he have done that, if he didn't plan on Angela getting the power through the egg? And there was also the omelette hint he gave to Will, as revealed here.

So, with all that, I think a better, more proper open ending would've been to show Angela hesitating whether or not to eat the egg, then fade to black before we see if she does. Then it would've been up for the viewer to decide whether even a supposedly good and just person like her deserves the power of a god.

then a dog jumps up and eats it out of her hand

And season 2 will be all about the adventures of... Dog Manhattan!

Great y'all just wrote Son of Mask 2 congrats

Dog goes back in time to 1985, avoids tire tread on burst stomach. Rorschach's journal opens instead with banality about the previous night's episode of "Dynasty"... the entire timeline changes.

If you want to look for some silly logic about 9, it'd be 9 panels to a page.

Post-finale Lindelof interview: https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/watchmen-season-2-damon-lindelof-finale-1203441149/

Bad finale. Not lost bad but still non-good and disappointing after a mostly great season. The problem was more with the execution than the story choices - the stuff with the clock was super clumsy and cheap looking; Keene Jr was a terrible actor who had to give a really long speech with a bad accent; maybe it would’ve been more effective to have Veidt arrive on earth in an earlier episode?

The Trieu stuff felt really mean in a “that bitch got what she deserved then, huh” way. And the very end? Not sure it needed ambiguity here, if it was going for an uplifting ending, it would’ve been better to see Angela walk on the water.

must defend James Wolk's honor; he's a splendid actor. He played it broad as hell, as presumably directed, for which mileage will vary.

In a show that focussed so much on breaking stereotypes, “Asian mastermind brought to disaster by her own grandiosity” felt like a bad choice.

Xpost

He was great in mad men! And obvs he looked good in that posing pouch. But Irons was a better ham, and Irons + Wolk was too much ham by half (for me).

also very good as a con man in the cancelled-after-two-episodes Lone Star

In a show that focussed so much on breaking stereotypes, “Asian mastermind brought to disaster by her own grandiosity” felt like a bad choice.

In that interview linked above Lindelof says that we're not necessarily meant to agree on Veidt's judgment of Trieu, and that she might've actually done some good with Manhattan's powers, but I don't think that idea came across in the episode at all.

Agree. Felt like it got played for comedy, in an inappropriate way (for frozen raining squid)

The path from “I disown you” to “I acknowledge you” to “I’m murdering you” felt, um, abbreviated

It would have made for another pause in the action which is presumably why they didn't do it, but a full episode on Trieu, her relationship with mother (and/or her other mother) and how she sees the world would have helped a lot in this regard xp

I didn’t watch, but judging by y’all’s comments, sounds like they really should have done 12 eps.