Damon Lindelof's Watchmen

Not so sure about that ending.

"the refrigerated vault with all your vials of cum..."

Why did Veidt have a big production team for his crumby VHS confession to Redford.

idk how I felt about this ep. the Cavalry being used as puppets kinda defanged a lot of that conflict.

it was the ending they deserved. despite their plan and all their work, they were still outmaneuvered by someone else. (a minority no less)

tho, Lady Trieu should have hired whoever made that phone booth.

They were and weren’t? The kavalry were always going to be a tool for actual power, and seeing the actual power get blasted was kind of nice, considering how well the supposedly nice widow convincingly turned into a smug racist

she's still upset about dying on the Titanic

The frozen squid incident reminds me of a friend who was adapting a chain’s generic architectural blueprints for their store to be built in an upper midwest location. They gave him shit for a bunch of roof changes and he had to explain, to his irritation, that if the location got three inches of snow or hail of note it’d be completely demolished. People south of true winter don’t get how to build a roof.

This def played more like a S1 finale than a series finale to me

Completely

I thought it was satisfying but not amazing. But overall better than Leftovers' first season, which has me hoping he'll return to it to see where it can go.

And very much like Leftovers S1, the standout episodes were the ones that prized one character's perspective.

Lady Trieu had all the best zingers

cord j was executive story editor throughout and i think co-wrote the hooded justice ep

https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata/series/watchmen/peteypedia/09/memo-dale-petey.pdf

Good thing systemic racism is actually just a room of thirty or so klanspeople that can be blasted with lasers.

yeah it was weird when they said racism was solved at the end.

This was glorious. Lindelof is saying to Alan Sepinwall that he is probably not going to make a second season. Every idea got poured into this one.

I would put money on him doing another season in a few years.

When Angela picked up the egg, I turned to my wife and said, "This show will cut to black just as her foot reaches the water." I guess anyone could have and probably did guess that, but come on, prestige TV.

lol Lindeloff basically admitted that he was replicating the ending of Inception

The document announcing Petey's termination also mentions that Laurie is being debriefed in a secret location and that no agents should talk about any conspiracy theories they might hear.

speaking of predicting things right before they happen, I exclaimed "he totally got liquefied in there!" right before Trieu opened the chamber. predictable but very satisfying.

I am pretty disappointed after loving most of the show (and ignoring some truly dumb stuff).

I felt the final episode ignored one of the show's major themes (America's systemic racism and oppression of African-Americans and the resulting damage and reaction to it). In the final episode, however, Angela was largely sidelined from the action, they largely denied Will Reeves his victory speech, and the world is saved mostly by a bunch of white folks.

Angela's lack of agency did bother me. Seeing what they could do with her post-egg is the main reason I'd like to see them do another season.

If this really was the series finale, it might have actually been more satisfying to see her toss the egg out and opt not to take on that power.

going back over the eps, I'd rank 'em something like

6 > 8 > 3 > 1 > 7 > 5 > 2 > 9 > 4

stuff I didn't like:

Game Warden turning out to be Veidt's fake adversary
whole 7th Kavalry/Cyclops thing kind of toothless
Lady Trieu just a mad scientist
Laurie suddenly deciding that Veidt needs to be arrested
Angela and Will are totally cool because betraying Cal to Trieu was Dr. M's idea
opening cum scene
Why does Angela want Dr. M's powers? Seems like they kind of suck.

I liked the Game Warden stuff and the opening scene, and having lived Will's memories I can understand her not wanting to be at odds with him, but the rest I more or less agree with

Looking Glass repeatedly vomiting Laurie-style after being teleported A+

I did like Will's line about "considering what he could do...he could have done more."

I hope Tuomas is happy with the explicit explanation about Veidt's automated squid dispensing system (with randomizing algorithm).

No one has mentioned Jane Crawford yelling "Just do it" as a callback to Rorschach's final words. She was a redhead too.

Also, Trieu might have been smart, but she didn't learn her father's best lesson: only explain your master plan after its been accomplished.

Yeah, the most puzzling part about the finale was, why did Trieu tell Angela in episode 7 that the 7th Kavalry knows Jon is living on Earth? Since we now know Trieu already knew Cal was Jon, why reveal that info, since it might lead into Cal and Angela going into hiding?

Other things that bugged that may or may not be answered in season 2:

- If Trieu's mom hated Veidt so much, why did she inseminate her with his sperm? Was the plan that she could sue him for alimony and her kid would eventually inherit him, or what?

- If Jon did transfer his powers to the egg, how was he able to teleport Laurie, Adrian, and Looking Class into Antarctica after that? And kill all those 7th Kavalry members in the previous ep? And we saw Trieu's machine registered some kind of power in him that siphoned away, so what was that about, if the power was in the egg already?

- How long did it take for Veidt to get bored on Europa? If he set up the Game Warden to be his adversary. that must've been quite early during his stay, because the GW was already around when he started catapulting the corpses for his message.

- How did all those Cyclops member come to agree that Keene Jr. was the one who deserved to get Dr. Manhattan's power? Why not Keene Sr. or one of the other more senior members?

- All those 7th Kavalry members are there when Keene is explaining how they've used basically as cannon fodder. Are none of them gonna question that?

If Jon did transfer his powers to the egg, how was he able to teleport Laurie, Adrian, and Looking Class into Antarctica after that?

It was never stated (iirc) that said transfer would sap him of his powers.

lol Lindeloff basically admitted that he was replicating the ending of Inception

Or rather, replicating the open ending of the comic book. It's up for the reader to decide whether or not they pick up Rorschach's journal / whether or not Angela got the powers.

Laurie suddenly deciding that Veidt needs to be arrested

We don't know if it was that sudden... Veidt disappeared over 10 years ago, maybe Laurie changed her mind during that time period, regretted that Veidt had most likely died and she couldn't bring him to justice, and now, as soon as she finds out Veidt's still alive, and after the immediate threat is over, she finally gets to arrest him.

It was never stated (iirc) that said transfer would sap him of his powers.

Yeah, I thought of that, but why not give everyone his powers then? Or at least give them to Angela earlier?

if you were Doc Manhattan would you give everyone your powers?

If Trieu's mom hated Veidt so much, why did she inseminate her with his sperm? Was the plan that she could sue him for alimony and her kid would eventually inherit him, or what?

This was dumb. But I had the sense she knew his thing about not wanting children and was doing it to spite him. Or I guess she assumed that her child would inherit his brain power.

If Jon did transfer his powers to the egg, how was he able to teleport Laurie, Adrian, and Looking Class into Antarctica after that? And kill all those 7th Kavalry members in the previous ep? And we saw Trieu's machine registered some kind of power in him that siphoned away, so what was that about, if the power was in the egg already?

Last episode they explain that Jon could give someone powers through an egg, but not that he would lose his powers while doing it iirc

How long did it take for Veidt to get bored on Europa? If he set up the Game Warden to be his adversary. that must've been quite early during his stay, because the GW was already around when he started catapulting the corpses for his message.

I would guess a week or so.

How did all those Cyclops member come to agree that Keene Jr. was the one who deserved to get Dr. Manhattan's power? Why not Keene Sr. or one of the other more senior members?

I kind of doubt we'll get much more about the decision making of the Hillbilluminati

All those 7th Kavalry members are there when Keene is explaining how they've used basically as cannon fodder. Are none of them gonna question that?

Doesn't matter now. But if his plan had worked Keene would probably have destroyed anyone who had a problem.

Veidt's arrest was the most slapstick moment of the series (the abrupt cut-off of the swelling music, and I think he actually said "oof")

Liked the cheesy bit where the only letters of the Dreamland theatre sign left after the squid hail are Dr M

Laurie suddenly deciding that Veidt needs to be arrested

We don't know if it was that sudden... Veidt disappeared over 10 years ago, maybe Laurie changed her mind during that time period, regretted that Veidt had most likely died and she couldn't bring him to justice, and now, as soon as she finds out Veidt's still alive, and after the immediate threat is over, she finally gets to arrest him.

Well, it wasn't like she was out there telling everyone that the Squid attack was a fake. She also made the arrest before Mirror Face produced the evidence, so it was just going to be her word.

going back over the eps, I'd rank 'em something like

6 > 8 > 3 > 1 > 7 > 5 > 2 > 9 > 4

Wasn't 4 the Laurie episode?

That was one of my favourites

Anyway, IMO this episode basically confirmed my earlier thoughts that it was a mistake to make this series into a Watchmen sequel rather than to keep it as original alternate history story. As Mordy points out, the whole racism/police/justice plot that made the early episodes so good was mostly sidelined in favour of the "who gets Manhattan's powers" plot, and the (white) comic book characters mostly stole the show from the one (black) protagonist that was original to the series. Even Trieu turned out to be related to one of the comic book characters, and motivated by his relation to him. So yeah, it was still quite good fanfiction, but it would've had potential for much more, if it hadn't been fanfiction.

that was 3 xp

in the end i thought this was kind of inert and unnecessary. the stuff about liberal hegemony and racist conspiracy was hamfisted. started out strong and then got lost

started out strong and then got lost

― goole, Monday, December 16, 2019 12:07 PM (nineteen seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol

do you see.

The Leftovers remains a towering achievement

I wouldn't go that far; ending was a little flat but it didn't diminish what came before to me; this wasn't one of those instances where the ending felt like it was meant as the overall conceit

Laurie suddenly deciding that Veidt needs to be arrested

We don't know if it was that sudden... Veidt disappeared over 10 years ago, maybe Laurie changed her mind during that time period, regretted that Veidt had most likely died and she couldn't bring him to justice, and now, as soon as she finds out Veidt's still alive, and after the immediate threat is over, she finally gets to arrest him.

Well, it wasn't like she was out there telling everyone that the Squid attack was a fake. She also made the arrest before Mirror Face produced the evidence, so it was just going to be her word.

Without Veidt, no one would believe her. We know that Rorshach's journal was published, and most people have written it off as a loony conspiracy theory. But maybe she thinks that by arresting Veidt, she can get her to confess. Also, while they're still in his lair, she can get all the physical evidence she needs, like the squid machine. So it's the perfect time and place to arrest him.