bojo is king, brexit is on, stuff is fvcked, tomorrow starts here -- new govt new thread new battle

Unfortunately, the Monty Python "Timmy Williams" sketch is not on YouTube.

mine's just class chippiness, she's way more middle class than say Starmer and just fucking lies about it like everybody from Birmingham doesn't have her accent

More middle class than Starmer, McDonnell and Abbott.

it's like centrist DNA, career middle management in public/voluntary sector who apparently can mind read the people they patronisingly claim to serve

i'm not ready for this yet, was gonna try and cling to positivity, i'll shut up

I'm blocking out all melt commentariat twaterry for a few months for the sake of my mental health. Listened to lots of Radio 3 and WS yesterday and turning it off when any domestic politics are mentioned during the news.

yeah i've been doing that all weekend

Ditto but the cunts are everyhwere.

People who are looking for someone without the faults of Corbyn miss the extent to which these lines are shaped by the press. No, we wouldn’t have had the antisemitism stuff as much with Philips but we would have had other stuff. ‘She laughs at men’s suicides!’ - so it’s bullshit, that doesn’t matter.

I can't even watch the news at all

not being watching it but even on Radio 3 you get a bulletin every so often

I’m with gyac, YMOF - when you have the women in the thread telling you why Jess Phillips is not impressive, and offering actual reasons (racism, the wrong kind of pugilistic instincts, all that ‘bab’ shite) maybe it’s not ‘misogyny’ that’s affecting our views?

― santa clause four (suzy), Sunday, December 15, 2019 2:39 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I have no idea where this is coming from, though? I'm pointedly not defending Jess Phillips here.

I’m meant to be having dinner at my dads place, so it’s going to be a night of tiptoeing around politics or a blazing row.

(And I’m not mentally prepared for either)

(xxp) You are pointedly putting criticism of Jess Phillips down to misogyny. Though you know that already, so I don't know why I'm telling you.

had moments of weird - not quite relief, but y'know - the last couple of days that my dad's not around to fall out with over this

My brother was actually on FB today calling John McDonnell a class act and praising the Labour manifesto, so all is not lost!

I'm putting a thread that doesn't address anything that she says, just that she's saying it, down to misogyny, yeah.

I was going to ask - but I actually already know the answer so I won’t bother. Thank you Suzy and Tom.

My brother was actually on FB today calling John McDonnell a class act and praising the Labour manifesto, so all is not lost!

I'm putting it down to the fact that she's a shameless self-publicist who'd turn up at the opening of an envelope but, you know, whatever presses your buttons.

(xp) Well, his wife is Jewish and they both consider Corbyn anti-Semitic so any discussion of politics was off the agenda. Pretty sure they voted SNP, they were in a Tory seat that went SNP, neither of then support Independence though.

her whole phoney shtick has been ripped to pieces on these threads, does it suddenly become misogyny if you say she's a shameless twat without clearly repeating what has already been posted about her multiple times?

Let’s not pretend that a lot of the stuff directed against her isn’t misogyny.

I do worry that the centrist’s ‘got to appeal to the wider electorate’ concerns will mean that there’s less chance of a woman or person of colour taking the job.

Why are the views of men speaking out to say Jess Phillips gets slagged off because of misogyny so much more correct than those of women saying “there’s more to it than that?” An ilx mystery that in this essay I will

xp
I don't often disagree with you dowd, but I call bullshit there if you mean on this thread.

The idea that calling any woman a 'shameless twat' could somehow not be misogynistic is so complete fucked up to me as a foreigner. And I'm honestly beginning to think it's uk discourse that is wrong on this.

https://london-post.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/bingoooo.jpg

Oh go and celebrate Boris' victory, Fred, and leave us alone please.

erm.. fuck off and die Fred please.

i think i found jess’ reddit account btw

https://i.redd.it/04tpf3k4xs441.jpg

I absolutely don’t mean on this thread. I mean that because she’s the focus of misogyny in the wider electorate we have to be careful not to use gendered criticisms. I don’t think anyone here dislikes her because of misogyny, I was just talking about the media environment she works in.

Maybe it was misogyny when she was videoed laughing during the results then immediately switched to sombre when she realised she was on camera?

Maybe it was misogyny when she palled around with Jacob Rees-Mogg in the name of broadening the discussion?

Maybe it was misogyny when she repeatedly targeted Parliament’s first black woman, someone who is so subject to abuse that her staff have to make several trips to the police with death threats weekly?

Maybe it was misogyny when she appeared on tv time and time again slagging off Labour and offering no solutions to anything?

Maybe it was misogyny when she was soaking up praise on twitter from the same dingbats who got everything wrong while Paula Sherriff was quietly making an actual difference to the world?

Maybe it was misogyny when she was retweeting Tories saying she gets too hard a time of it?

Tl; dr

The main reason to oppose Jess PHILLIPS outside her antiblackness and TERF friendly affected working class persona is the fact she’s yet to figure out that your opponents don’t praise you when they consider you a threat to them.

— No-one (@judeinlondon2) December 15, 2019

The idea that calling any woman a 'shameless twat' could somehow not be misogynistic is so complete fucked up to me as a foreigner. And I'm honestly beginning to think it's uk discourse that is wrong on this.

i would like to point out that gyac has been otm in this thread

I absolutely don’t mean on this thread. I mean that because she’s the focus of misogyny in the wider electorate we have to be careful not to use gendered criticisms. I don’t think anyone here dislikes her because of misogyny, I was just talking about the media environment she works in.

Okaaaay Fred, she’s an asshole who will punch down at the first opportunity or say something about a marginalised person to get accepted by the kool kids. When she came down to London she was in to see publishers and agents before the paint was dry on her constituency office. She’s in a hurry and she has sharp elbows, There is nothing at all wrong with being ambitious, and an ambitious woman at that, but she ain’t exactly selfless with it.

twat isn't a gendered term of abuse where I come from and please kill yourself Fred, you worthless slimeball.

I am just as concerned. And it would be odd to say “was it misogyny to criticise Abbot for privately educating her kids?” when of course lots of the energy against her is motivated by misogyny etc.

Whereas JP seems to be celebrated as the genuine voice of the working class, among other things, by misogynists, hmmmmmm....

fyi fred et al - in the uk “twat” is not a gendered slur; if anything it’s said of men more than women

(And I don’t think Phillips should be anywhere near the leadership)

Like let me make it plain as fucking day because people are not getting it.

I don’t want a woman leader who throws people under the bus.
I don’t want a woman leader who associates with those who’d do me harm.
I don’t want a woman leader who takes actions that make the chances of a Labour government less likely.

Austerity disproportionately affects women and BAME communities more.

The Tories had a 16 point lead with men, and a leader who left his wife during cancer treatment for a woman he was later reported to the police for because the neighbours were worried for her.

Boris Johnson’s burqa remarks led to Muslim women experiencing violence and harassment on the streets of Britain.

Anyone handwringing over JP is not going to convince me they care about women or the wider problem of misogyny in this country.

We deserve better women leaders than this. I think of Mary Robinson talking about how poverty, and climate justice, and opposing in the 8th amendment in the 80s. That’s my idea of a female leader I’d be proud to stand behind.

Fred has his mind on higher matters, raising the tone of political discourse in the UK as a whole *thumbs up*

I'm trying to write this piece on this awful awful commentator in Denmark, who is constantly writing about 'identity politics' in the most awful way. She is calling everyone a nazi, defending convicted rapists, thinks being 'non-binary' is ipso facto being a radical fundamentalist identitarian and grounds for firing, basically. She thinks personal communication about potential abusers should be criminalized. She is one of the worst people I know. The idea that I could somehow call her a cunt or a twat or a bitch then, I just don't see where that happens. Still misogyny?

And I've been called cunt and twat enough times to know it's not exclusively aimed at women, lol. But of course it's a gendered insult, lol.

Then again, who cares, I'm just a stupid foreigner, right? Carry on.

I am just as concerned. And it would be odd to say “was it misogyny to criticise Abbot for privately educating her kids?” when of course lots of the energy against her is motivated by misogyny etc.

And I've been called cunt and twat enough times to know it's not exclusively aimed at women, lol. But of course it's a gendered insult, lol.

Then again, who cares, I'm just a stupid foreigner, right? Carry on.

You’re otm, and I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, I’m not sure where the disagreement is. Anyway, still a bit too raw for this, so enjoy yr evenings

I guess the question of what brexit strategy Labour should have adopted is academic now given that it will likely be a settled issue by the time of the net election, but this argument that it would have been better to accept the UK was leaving and focus on achieving a better deal seems plausible:

http://www.edmundgriffiths.com/brexitwqwa.html

Remain and Leave became politically significant identities between 2017 and 2019 purely because it did not seem that the referendum had finally settled whether Britain would be leaving the European Union or not.

If the Labour Party had instead made clear that it was irrevocably committed to seeing Brexit delivered, that it would fight for a soft Brexit but that there were no circumstances whatever under which Labour would support a second referendum or the revocation of the Article 50 notification, then it would have been exceedingly difficult for the idea of stopping Brexit to get off the ground.

or at least if Labour was going to back a second referendum it should have done so earlier and with a clear pro-remain message from the leadership, some kind of formal electoral pact with the Lib Dems and Greens. It wasn't plausible to agree that the remain option was a possibility while simultaneously positioning themselves as the consensus middle-way option on brexit.

Wrong crowd: I heard said crowd were actively trying to jump him into a gang and threatening him when he wouldn’t join in.