bojo is king, brexit is on, stuff is fvcked, tomorrow starts here -- new govt new thread new battle

I mean, I prefer RLB but I think Angela Rayner would be better at getting on Tory tits.

The tidal wave of misogyny that will confront any female leader of the Labour Party is already making me wince and it hasn't even happened yet.

I am not sure how much those public spending pledges really worked. In the 47 seats that flipped to CON almost all were leave. I am still at this was 90% Brexit as an issue, with a decades long build up to it.

It's partly me reacting to some of the worst Lab right stuff I've seen. Very hard to see unity where Corbyn was only part of the problem, and where policy and treating non-white ppl with dignity as the much bigger problem.

I do see a lie being told to keep people onside as part of the solution though xpost to Matt.

I really don't care about PMQ performance in a leader, sorry.

Stuff that broad church up your arse

I don't think this is right! Its about taking ownership of what broad church is (whatever that really means)

RLB is a better choice for leader. In 2024

Rayner is a better choice for leader in 2020. Whoever it is should be keeping the seat warm

Johnson won not just by going full ERG but by sprinkling the manifesto with just enough public spending sugar to convince waverers

He also correctly surmised many remainers weren't really that bothered about remaining, whereas leavers actually meant what they said. And could take the risk he wouldn't lose that many of them, without actually offering them anything. Stuff like this doesn't really come back to bite you for years (even decades as we just found it)

I am not sure how much those public spending pledges really worked. In the 47 seats that flipped to CON almost all were leave. I am still at this was 90% Brexit as an issue, with a decades long build up to it.

Brexit was the washing up and someone was trying to put off doing it. Nobody gaf about the spending pledges, they didn't really believe them, he doesn't need to deliver on them ,and he probably won't bother. A lot of people think councils are responsible anyway, do the Tories even really 'own' austerity?

But if we couldn't do the washing up then our spending pledges weren't believable either so what's the difference and at least Boris wasn't in Hamas

this is my own professional bad-not-good bubble but much of the hastings & brighton 80s rockwrite massive -- who are largely *not* public school -- luuurves jess p

(partly i suspect bcz one julie b once announced she wd v happily bang JP and, well, you join the dots) (i take no pleasure in reporting this)

Downing Street is putting out the word that it is boycotting @Radio4Today because of its, and the BBC’s, ‘bias’ against Boris Johnson & the Conservatives during the campaign.

— John Simpson (@JohnSimpsonNews) December 15, 2019

I take no pleasure in reading it so we're even

to be clear #notallrockwrite

Exactly as it was after the referendum result all BAME people are going to feel that customary vacillation between feeling looked at/ barely tolerated and wondering about our own sensitivities and paranoia in coming weeks.

— ⚫ Chilli Kulkarni (@KaptainKulk) December 15, 2019

Well it's not that people didn't believe in the manifesto because the marginal losses tell me that.

As per yesterday's discussion councils turned out to be a gigantic weakness. And indeed Labour making no gains, and having no offer, at council level proved to be fatal in the north XP to anvil

this is my own professional bad-not-good bubble but much of the hastings & brighton 80s rockwrite massive -- who are largely *not* public school -- luuurves jess p

A vital constituency, shame on Corbyn for neglecting them >:(

"I don't think this is right! Its about taking ownership of what broad church is (whatever that really means)"

No idea what this means either. The factional war will carry on in one form or another. The Tories did in the end purge their remainers and I think some form of this is something the left should not be afraid of doing. It's hardly show trials lol.

"RLB is a better choice for leader. In 2024"

We don't have the luxury of time. There might be a major economic crisis by the end, and further climate events. Be serious.

I would certainly not vote for Starmer as a leadership candidate nor in a GE (I still hate myself for voting for Miliband Labour + will never do that again) and if he was the most lefty candidate on the slate that would be the point where I say fuck this bullshit game and throw my card in the bin and sulk off to the communist party!

It doesn't do anyone any good pretending that this wasn't at heart down to a combination of Brexit and Corbyn and any candidate who succeeds him has to be able to adequately differentiate themselves from him while keeping the policies that are attractive to the electorate.

The harder bit is finding someone who is harder for the right wing press to monster or who the mud won't stick to. That bit might be impossible but I share Tom's horror at what might happen to a female Labour leader.

Nandy making the right noises on the bit of Marr I saw, about local organising etc

It is going to be a tough gig, but like Corbyn used to often say it isn't as hard as being homeless or queuing outside foodbanks to survive. Lets not get too carried away with compromise for the sake of placating the shitty right wing media - who will even find eays to demonise sir brylcreem boy - don't pretend just cos someone is from the moderate wing that they will be immune to that.

Also the Boris narrative is not going to be one of austerity and hardship and tightening our belts. He wants to be a PM for good times, Britain Bouncing Back etc and his record as Mayor shows that he will throw money at gimmicks and anything else that gives the impression that we're heading into a golden age. Labour has to be able to counter that without looking like dour miserablists.

Obviously if there's an economic crisis then that will really test a government which isn't overburdened with competent technical minds and that will do a lot of Labour's work for it. But voters still need to believe that a Labour victory isn't just pouring oil on the fire.

Is there any possibility of setting up any network of alternative media that could combat the prevailing right wing message being the only thing that a lot of people see? Or would that just take way too long and not be able to compete with the existing monopoly.

I'm just trying to keep some hope taht the country I grew up in might have some hope of surviving this mistake.
& if there are a lot of the population who will be devastated by this surely there must be some recognition of tehir continued existence. Or is the plan taht this will make them waste away and disappear or transform themselves? IN which case getting rid of any opportuntity for them to do so would seem to be counterintuitive.
I can't help hoping there is till some room for optimism but maybe that's defunct already. & without optimism you just give up.

I think I left for a reason a couple of decades ago, and not sure how badly this effects me in the longterm. So still hoping the longtermdoes see some correction of what at the moment just seems calamitous.

I'm a RLB fan to the death at the moment, but Burgon as deputy - no way!

I'll be binning RLB if she comes with Burgon attached.

"It doesn't do anyone any good pretending that this wasn't at heart down to a combination of Brexit and Corbyn and any candidate who succeeds him has to be able to adequately differentiate themselves from him while keeping the policies that are attractive to the electorate."

Depends on how this works in practice. "Continuity Corbyn" is going to be thrown around at whoever succeeds him that also took part in the Shadow cab (bar perhaps Starmer) and is from the Labour left. RLB or Rayner will be called Marxists if they keep a lot of the policies (which as you say are popular, the same ones the membership will go out to bat for too). That's the reality.

How big a deal is Deputy? As long as that person has their heart in the right place and isn't a fucking wrecker. Burgon isn't that experienced but we've just lived through Tom Watson.

He's hopeless, get him to fuck.

I'm having this batch of tomato soup I made before election day and it feels like that lasagne Bobby Baccalieri's wife made before she died in The Sopranos and he doesn't want to eat it, because it was made before all hope had died!

He wouldn't be a wrecker but he'd be liability and anyone who repped for Chris Williamson at some point might need the Yezhov treatment!

With Burgon as Deputy Leader all your tomato soup will taste like hope had just died.

lol!

As for his heart being in the right place, his heart belongs to Williamson, dear old Chris Williamson.

now more than ever the left must focus on its ultimate objective: prime minister brian eno

Taking Blyth Valley By Strategy.

Chris Williamson is history now. I wouldn't have Burgon either but Lab did stop CW from standing. It is true he just isn't quite sharp enough.

He will probably be in the Shadow cab if RLB/Lab left get in.

:-(

Keep asking myself why so many people would vote for such an awful man that has hurt so many people with his cruel welfare policies, as well as a racist prime minister. Don’t want to lose faith in humanity, but trying to be honest with myself. https://t.co/WVmdiwdQSH

— Faiza Shaheen (@faizashaheen) December 15, 2019

RLB or Rayner will be called Marxists if they keep a lot of the policies (which as you say are popular, the same ones the membership will go out to bat for too). That's the reality.

This is inevitably true though it might be harder to make it stick to someone who has never identified as part of the Socialist campaign group, is a member of the LFI, etc. A lot of people on the left will make a fuss if it’s Rayner, which will likely help her distance herself from ‘continuity Corbyn’ to some degree.

I and others had to deal with exactly this type of idiot throughout the 80s. Now he's back and I'll have to spend the next decade dealing with him all over again. https://t.co/Kix5uweNw5

— Aditya Chakrabortty (@chakrabortty) December 15, 2019

Rachel Riley might have to postpone her defeat of anti-Semiticism in the UK celebrations, because it appears that fascists are completely emboldened by an openly racist PM

Rayner also came through UNISON's leadership scheme, although "in the pockets of the unions" seems like it wasn't as big a talking point recently

"This is inevitably true though it might be harder to make it stick to someone who has never identified as part of the Socialist campaign group, is a member of the LFI, etc."

Think it will be easy enough if you are batting for social housing and rent controls and anything that threatens property rights, nationalisation and so on. Easy enough to make slippery slope arguments too.

But as I said, that's the reality but the media didn't entirely win it for Johnson.

Poor Faiza, robbed of her seat by north Chingford golf Nazis.

unsurprised to see John McD and Jeremy behaving with infinitely more class than their critics

Not difficult tbh.

Faiza increases C& WG’s vote to its highest ever level, and she bucked the national trend by her % of the vote not going up. She wasn’t the problem, people not wanting to vote Labour nationally was the problem. JC, DA, John McD all lost big chunks off their votes

Their critics are wasting their time calling RL-B thick - view entirely shared and disseminated by Guidi, btw - and every activist and member devastated without losing sees this. They’ve learned nothing from 2015.

Indeed, just been out shopping came back, turned the telly on to Andrew Adonis going on about the cancer in the Labour Party, rooting out Corbynism and making the Labour Party attractive (again) to Lib Dem supporters and moderate Conservatives.

I'm surprised he didn't call for Corbyn to be hung from a lamppost.

Oh, and first name out of his mouth when asked about a new leader? Jess Phillips. wtf is up with these fools?

Centrists are sticking the boot in because they’ve got nothing else to offer. They keep pointing at Blair, but Blair on the cusp of power hadn’t abandoned the regions for decades while taking their vote and doing nothing for them. Also ignores the not insignificant effect of Blair himself on Labour voters - “ they’re all the same” is poisonous and created the headspace for people to stay at home or switch. Mandelson saying of Northern voters “they’ve got nowhere else to go” looks like a fucking epitaph. His seat is Conservative today.

None of the “ideas” centrists are hoiking make any sense electorally or internally. Be more racist? Yeah, see how safe those remaining safe seats stay. See how many young people turn out to campaign and get involved and pay into the party. See how badly you’ll lose when people look at the Tories and don’t want a diet version of that. Be more centrist? Don’t know if you realise but it’s not 1997 and the world has moved on somewhat and your boy Tony is about as electorally popular as scurvy.

Oh, and first name out of his mouth when asked about a new leader? Jess Phillips. wtf is up with these fools?

I don't why they keep entertaining jess as a candidate - it simply is not happening unless half a million members suddenly disappear

I thought the main point of having a labour party was to contrast massively with teh more bourgeois ruling class ones. Hopefully show how outdated they were too. NOt focus on trying to create swing voters to come out to join your ersatz them.
Sounds like a really good way of creating mass apathy and not getting more of the vote really, just getting people feeling severly unrepresented and staying home cos voting isn't worth anything.

They know there is zero chance of pressuring the members to vote for her, the objective is to be able to say ‘I told you so’ after it all goes wrong next time. Xp

He wouldn't be a wrecker but he'd be liability and anyone who repped for Chris Williamson at some point might need the Yezhov treatment!

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/jeremy-corbyn-2492585
"Chris Williamson is a very good, very effective Labour MP. He’s a very strong anti-racist campaigner. He is not anti-semitic in any way."

Which is to say yes, it'd be good to have a leader that isn't specifically bound to anti-semitism, but it'll still be a stick used to beat Labour for a while - what steps have you taken to distance the party from this signature stain etc etc, only the second party to be investigated by the ECHR etc etc, we may have our problems but at least we're not Institutionally Racist etc etc.

As will everything - a lot of the mad spark of Labour over the last while seems to be seizing our strengths as weaknesses, but it turns out someone them are weaknesses, including selling transformative socialism to England (possibly including selling socialism to England full stop), and the Tories will not tire of using the massive failure to indicate that the Labour party shouldn't be listened to on anything. Boris has dodged questions so far - he won't suddenly feel the need to start answering them now.