KNIVES OUT -- dir. Rian Johnson; Daniel Craig, Michael Shannon, Jamie Lee Curtis, Chris Evans, etc. etc.

moreso, it always felt like they were just faux-kind to Marta just like these types of people can be. kind of like "Smurf" Cody in Animal Kingdom with her grandson J. she comes across as a loving grandmother when she takes him in, embraces him, calls him sweety, talks to him in a sweet grandma voice, yet the moment he's a threat to her, she orders him killed, because none of those feelings were 'real'.

similarly they all "like" Marta and they make shows of kindness to her, but they're empty - like they say they're going to take care of her financially! How nice! But it's an empty gesture because they're doing so with the money they assume they're going to get from Harlan's estate, not their own money. and the moment she gets the money, instead of being happy that she's going to be well-off, they all turn on her like selfish, vile pricks.

xpost yeah I don't mean to suggest that they secretly "hate" Marta, but that they don't care as much about her as they let on.

born-on-third assholes, which is what most of the Thrombeys are*, are often like this. they're very good at coming across as caring and kind, but also classist assholes that think a thing like having "the help" show up at a rich patriarch's funeral is "beneath" them.

― master of nuggets (Neanderthal), Friday, December 6, 2019 2:21 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Exactly. Fran also wasn't invited, which was why she was home to see Ransom.

michael shannon's eye was really wandering overtime, wonder if it was CGI or if he can do that at will -- acting!

It is a little weird watching this discussion from the UK - she's the help! They're kind to her because you're kind to the help, but I have no idea where you're getting "very evidently treated like family".

In fact she's treated better than the family treats each other, because she's not on the radar. If you'd asked any of them before the will scene if Harlan was schtupping her, they would have politely changed the subject because who cares what you do with the help?

(Something at one point - I annoyingly forget what - did make me wonder if they were going for something Father Brownish where class makes people dangerous through invisibility)

The most glaring example of How Things Are is the scene with Don Johnson prattling on while holding up his empty cake plate. It's only after a second that you realize he is holding it up for Marta, who is standing just off screen and a little bit out of focus in the foreground, to take.

prattling on about how much he appreciates her

don johnson was my favorite in this, so effectively squirrely when being interrogated

Does Don Johnson ever play characters that aren't garbage people?

A Boy And His Dog

Maybe the twist in Watchmen finale is he's a cool dude.

reaching back to: acting badly on purpose, what a bold and advanced move

It never much hurt Peter Sellers when he was playing Inspector Clouseau.

A Boy And His Dog

are you referring to the character that kills and feeds his g/f to his dog

Yeah, lol, seriously.

But to be fair, that dog was great. Man's best friend.

He kept the dog alive!

Yeah, exactly! He probably made the right choice, because the dog was his friend.

the girl he raped, murdered, and turned into dogfood, eh not so much

It's a dog eat dog world.

Dog eat girl, I guess.

What a shit movie that was.

It never much hurt Peter Sellers when he was playing Inspector Clouseau.

*NARRATOR VOICE ...*

very different sorts of movies Aimless

main diff is that peter sellers is funny

Hmmm.

The biggest hint that none of them actually really cared about Marta was how all of them had different ideas about which country her family was actually from.

The granddaughter seemed to care about her, at least to some extent. Yeah, she called to get her to renounce the inheritance, but it implied she was doing so under duress.

Even the family members who were most on her side were not really with her.

they were very kind to the nice girl from bolivia

Meg fuckin told the family that Marta's mother was undocumented! Then she tearfully apologizes and Marta's like it's OK.... it's not OK!!!!!

Surprised no Choose Your Own Adventure fans notice the homage.

Did someone descend into an ant hill?

Again, Meg sold her out, but there was more than a hint of implication that she was pressured to do so. At least she's portrayed as distraught and in tears when she calls her in front of everyone else's glares.

Lol i totally did. "Who Killed Harlowe Thrombey?"

I would pay money to see a short of the family’s 4th of July mafia game

Also, loved the changing details every time we see a replay of the same scene.

Grandma asking Ransom if he’s leaving already -> grandma sitting quietly as Ransom leaves -> grandma sitting with a slice of cake as Ransom leaves

re whether the family really likes Marta or not, I think the question is a bit beside the point. If you're from a family like the Thrombeys and one of the household staff walks away with your ENTIRE family inheritance including the house you're not gonna just smile and say, "Welp, she sure deserves it!"

The will is not read until after the funeral.

But whether they love her or hate her or simply don't think of her at all, they would still react the same way to her getting all of their money. That's human nature. (Unless I'm missing your point?)

the point was whether they sincerely liked her so much that they would have invited her to the private family-only funeral or not, so what happens after the funeral can't rly nullify that

JiC - Meg tells them Marta’s mom is undocumented! She isn’t pressured to tell them. That’s the point of her character afaic, to make the point that class interests are always going to win out, no matter how liberal her views or how genuine her liking for the hired help.

She isn’t pressured to tell them

Curious where you're getting this from - I'm aware that Meg claiming the opposite shouldn't be taken as gospel truth, but it also feels like something the family would do.

How would that pressure work? 'Meg - is there anything we can blackmail her with? C'MON MEG' and then Meg.. offers up the undocumented mother?

Grudgingly of course

Ahhh you guys fancy Meg and are looking for reasons she's not an asshole - n/m

Ignoring that last post - yeah? "Marta is going to make most of your family penniless, I know you like her, but are you really going to choose her over us?" is pretty much how that would go - like Joe Stork isn't wrong that she puts class/race over friendship, but she can do that while also being pressured into it and feeling terrible afterwards.

Not that I'm saying this is definitely what happened - I'm pushing back against Joe's definite "she isn't pressured"

My favorite line reading: Chris Evans saying "Yep" (hard p).

Points in Meg's favor: we know she's close and friends with the housekeeper Fran, to the extent that she not only knows about Fran's stash, but actually recommended vaping to her over cigarettes. Even in MA (assuming the film is up with current law), stashing and smoking pot on the job would have been a fireable offense, so clearly she had Meg's confidence. Then at the family party, Meg blows it off, only coming back late. Later, when Meg calls Marta, she's in tears, clearly distraught, and when she hangs up (upset enough that she doesn't even say goodbye), the rest of the family is literally staring at her from a couple of feet away; of course they told her to call. (For that matter, Meg is one of the few calls Marta accepts, iirc.) Now, we know Meg's mom is an asshole and crook, but there is no hint Meg knows her mom was stealing, though we do see Meg's mom manipulate her about the loss of the tuition money (without taking the blame she deserves). And then of course, at the end of the movie Meg (as far as I remember), is the only person who gives Marta a hug goodbye, and even then she's tearful as she apologizes.

Of course the movie doesn't show her being pressured to give up Marta's family status, but that's probably intentional, to keep it more ambiguous, which despite the aforementioned it is. Though it's telling that none of the others have the benefit of ambiguity. For that matter, it's also telling the Marta confided in Meg in the first place. So who knows. Fake movie person doesn't need my real defense.

The movie was fun, but I'm not sure it's worth this jesuitical untangling of the plot. With mysteries I don't care about plot.

lol Alfred, dropping another "who cares?"

the fact is that nobody went to bat for marta apart from harlan. who should have known the hell he was plunging her into tbh.

Yeah, that's the most important thing.