Ne'er get thee stitched til Booris be ditched: UK General Election 2019

Can we take a moment to wonder if any green party members and supporters are reassessing their party's electoral pact with the lib dems

Minority opinion but Raab is basically right and waiving the possibility of seeking costs on judicial review when it plays badly in the media is the kind of thing that governments shouldn't be in the business of doing.

Good post Fizzles

in my extremely uneducated opinion, Palestine is one of those causes that has been relatively marginal & so it seems that there’s more keenness to embrace and overlook the flaws of any fucker who’ll turn up and beef up the numbers. Which is bad! You always get mad conspiracists around basically anything to do with Jewish people as well.

"but lefty online spheres in general where any mention of AS is too often shot down with an 'IT'S ALL A SMEAR!' head-burying"

So you are not on twitter and you haven't followed ilx threads and you get all this from 'online lefty spheres' not the real world? Ok..

There's definitely a kind of Corbyn paradox at work here - where Labour itself is more popular than Corbyn but the version of Labour that is popular wouldn't have come into existence under any of his leadership rivals. (Having said that I think something similar would have happened eventually as leaders tend to be the product of wider sociohistorical factors that would have put someone like them in charge regardless, but it would have taken longer).

That doesn't mean that elements of Corbyn's base aren't in the process of toxifying the party in their own way - Labour has to come to some way of dealing with that.

I remember getting looks from my friends when I insisted that anti-semitism on the left was A Thing way before this labour thing blew up, so it’s frustrating to see it finally being taken seriously but mainly by people who think it’s all Corbyn’s fault somehow. Matt otm, if the momentum wing is gonna be the driving force (god willing) we need to be better at stamping that shit out

i really don’t get “Corbyn doesn’t believe in the EU” arguments.

I don't believe in the EU and I voted Remain, unlike Corbyn (joek)

I'd just like to announce that after making light of knife crime in regard to Boris Johnson during this thread last night I shall be retiring from public duties.

online lefty spheres

This is a problem. Probably not intentional but phrases like this are so vague and abstract it leaves nowhere to go. Maybe I agree, maybe I disagree but nobody knows, because its left unexplained idea what these spheres are, its left to the readers imagination. This inability or refusal to pin things down leaves the reader second guessing. Coupled with having to second guess what the macro view is because its unclear where your view ends and the macro view starts the reader is left disoriented

Oh fuck it's a Brexit PPB with fucking soldiers in it Where's the kitchen knives?

I honestly do not give two fucks if jemery croy;nob stays neutral in a 2nd ref and if he personally uses his pen to put a big fat X in the leave box on the ballot. The important thing in the event of a 2nd ref is to make and win the arguments that were so lacking last time.

That's about the size of it.

But there are fewer people who need telling what way to vote this time!

The important thing in the event of a 2nd ref is to make and win the arguments that were so lacking last time.

I agree, but I fail to see how Corbyn's official stance doesn't tie into this.

I’m really disappointed my nuclear airplane derail was derailed by dog latin

Have mcdonnell lead the remain campaign, while corbyn supports leave, and basically try and shut tories out of the debate as much as possible, like the 2016 campaign in reverse.

Hopefully the 'leave' option will be soft as baby shit brexit in name only anyway

have JC lead the remain campaign - he’s electorally popular ! this basic truth is so often omitted

labour polled 40% at the last GE. do people not find it suspicious that 40% of the electorate have just been... memoryholed (barely represented in media, rarely vox popped etc)

I agree, but I fail to see how Corbyn's official stance doesn't tie into this.

Because Corbyn is old enough to remember that it worked for Harold Wilson perhaps?

4390859034854d chess, I see.

Have literally ANY labour mp lead the remain campaign under “you’ll never have to hear about this shit again and we will pass a law to memoryhole this waste of time and money”, good Friday agreement style landslide

Corbyn leading either campaign could be counterproductive if people use it as a protest vote against him personally.

true, I just want to boil piss

Can we take a moment to wonder if any green party members and supporters are reassessing their party's electoral pact with the lib dems

hate the glib dems, but if you’re in a constituency where it’s basically a choice of yellow or blue, then I’d probably vote LD. An electoral pact does not mean you support all of their policies, it’s just a way of avoiding the worse of two evils (tight contest though imo). Obviously the green’s preferred solution to this is PR but in the absence of that what are you gonna do?

Jon Lansman comes out swinging

https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/focusing-only-on-labour-whitewashes-the-antisemitism-and-racism-of-other-parties-1.493397

nickb otm. the tories must be destroyed.

gyac is correct, so many Cameron-hating Tories voted Leave to fuck him up (and said so at the time).

i keep not posting this because feel it drags over well worn ground and it’s a bit *do you see* (sorry) but...

anti-semitism is a problem across society and has so many routes in and expressions that it can be seen, with some justification, in a lot of places (how does a long-standing distaste for “new money” come out of a distrust of “money without land” to take one of multitudes of instances?); historical symbolism, barely understood fabricated resentments buried as cultural distaste, or expressed via racism, snobbery, aesthetic disgust, and cultural insularity - so many areas carry the whiff of it. (many of these are vehicles for general racism and are not confined to anti-semitism of course). it takes different forms on the left and right and in many other social, political, media and psychological spaces. it is present across society and as has been seen with some recent tory candidate holocaust deniers it is present across parties.

it has fucking weird and also innocuous registers; for every loony going through high finance conspiracy, there’s a Kingsley Amis watching the credits of a film and saying “there’s another one”.

this report, (summary here) which has been posted a few times, that looks at how to examine anti-semitic sentiment in contemporary societies, is really useful i think.

xp to the lansman post by gyac and the other AS discussion points.

4390859034854d chess, I see.

Did you read what I posted?

I wasn't responding to you in particular.

state of Gove here, genuinely loled at WITH YOUR OWN MOUTH

One the best interviews I've seen during this campaign from @C4Ciaran. Relentless, unflustered forensic questioning https://t.co/bbOT0D6YBZ

— Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) November 20, 2019

I wasn't responding to you in particular.

Obviously not.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/lib-dems-candidate-antisemitism

Well this is timely.

antisemitism is so embedded in society that I don’t know how you could usefully combat it without educating properly on it (and racism in general) in schools.

hate the glib dems, but if you’re in a constituency where it’s basically a choice of yellow or blue, then I’d probably vote LD.

Mmmm. I'd hope people aren't overestimating the number of such constituencies that exist, though. And the aggregate labour vote might prove important in a hung parliament jockeying situation.

An electoral pact does not mean you support all of their policies, it’s just a way of avoiding the worse of two evils (tight contest though imo).

The electoral pact is a transparently cynical attempt by the lib dems to try and peel off green and green-sympathetic voters. They shouldn't fall for it. Hopefully Swinson's fuckin Jack D. Ripper turn will concentrate a few minds.

in the AS, feel i need to give full context to the KA piece, and also because i think it’s a powerful piece of writing, giving weight to anti-semitism, which often feels trivialised by its use as a toxic political ping-pong ball. (by martin amis i’m afraid but Experience is genuinely good)


–. . . What’s it like being mildly anti-Semitic?
–It’s all right.
–No. What’s it feel like being mildly anti-Semitic? Describe it.

..

– Hi, Dad, I said, and we embraced.–. . . What’s that you’re reading? Some *Jew*? I turned my back on him and kept it turned. The book referred to was *If This Is a Man*, by Primo Levi . . . Not many months earlier my novel about the Holocaust, *Time’s Arrow*, had appeared, and I had been accused of anti-Semitism. What I didn’t want was another syllable of loose talk on this subject. So as I fixed my father’s drink, the gin, the white onions, I kept my head down and said something like:

Actually I was going to tell you about it. A really clinching thing about sex difference. When the Fascist Militia rounded him up he was taken to a huge detention camp, in Italy, in the north, I think. Then the Jews were singled out and told that they would be deported to Auschwitz the next day. The men all spent that last night drinking and fucking and fighting. The women all spent it washing their children and their children’s clothes and preparing meals. And, he writes, something like–when the sun came up, like an ally of our enemy, the barbed wire around the camp was full of children’s washing hung out in the wind to dry.

At last I turned with the drink in my hand. And my first thought was to reach for a kitchen towel. How had he had time to cry so much? His motionless face was a mask of unattended tears. He said steadily,

– That’s one thing I feel more and more as I get older. Let’s *not* round up the women and the children. Let’s *not* go over the hill and fuck up the people in the next town along. Let’s not do any of that ever again.

whoops missed out his initial response to MA’s question about what it feels like.

–What’s it feel like? Well. Very mild, as you say. If I’m watching the end of some new arts programme I might notice the Jewish names in the credits and think, Ah, there’s another one. Or: Oh I see. There’s another one.

no doubt, knowing the discourse and how deeply unserious many (most) people are about genuinely dealing with antisemitism as the abhorrence it is, we will move seamlessly from "labour suspending so many people due to AS displays the extent of its problem" to the "conservatives suspending so many people shows how seriously they are taking this"

Your political fashion correspondent is here to say Jo Swinson jogs on while wearing fashy New Balance trainers in lens-flare teal’n’orange. 🤢

hahahshahahaha

Ed Davey tells @afneil that the most likely election result is a Tory minority government. He then says Lib Dems would use that to demand a 2nd referendum. What’s going on? Is anyone watching this shit?!? #andrewneilshow pic.twitter.com/QT4c96DlKT

— William Kedjanyi (@KeejayOV2) November 20, 2019

jesus

jo swinson really was... the /best/ candidate

Legit I was thinking earlier “can’t believe they chose someone less likely than Ed Davey” and then...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ1xO7nXkAUEWIb?format=jpg&name=large
Sobel and Lewis together on the campaign trail and Sobel wearing a trans day of remembrance badge, you love to see it

SIR Ed Davey to you, mate.

give us a 2nd ref or the squirrel get's it - is a marked contrast from when Jo was claiming she could win a majority based on EU election voting results and her ability to nod a lot.

Vote Lib Dem and we'll be a moderating force on the Tories, just not in a coalition, is probably the pitch that works best for them in their winnable seats.

Being a piss Tory is a helluva drug