US Politics, November 2019: These people are truly sick.

I WANT NOTHING
I WANT NOTHING
I WANT NO QUID PRO QUO

^^and that's yr december thread title imo^^

Is that a Ramones song?

Mission of Burma iirc

We here all knew Trump had committed serious crimes meriting removal from office long before today. The real question now is how these hearings and the testimony given before the cameras affects public opinion in the coming days and weeks. The Mueller report cited facts just as damning, but the public shrugged it off.

This Ukraine narrative seems to have had far more impact, with recent polls showing just slightly more than 50% favoring Trump's removal from office, even before today. If that jumps up to 60% in short order, the monolithic Republican Senate caucus is going to crumble and senators will each be searching for the correct formula they think will save their asses with the voters in their own state.

There is reason to hope.

i want hot dog

https://i.imgur.com/PgzHENX.jpg

xpost Eh, skeptical. A major implosion still hasn't happened from within WH circles itself. After that things would get odd.

THIS IS THE FINAL WORD FROM THE PRES OF THE U.S.

more bad news for trump
http://i.imgur.com/EjvtlF5.png

i'm skeptical that this changes the calculus for most GOP senators at all. what's Trump's approval rate among Republicans going to fall to? 82%? he's the best thing they've got. maybe the best thing they've ever had? which, lol.

From our own jaymc

Found a reference to Gordon Sondland in a self-published 2006 memoir by a friend of his mom. She calls him "Gordi" and says "he is a very big man now." https://t.co/wuKQexznqH pic.twitter.com/alGVxNvADU

— John M. Cunningham (@jmcunning) November 20, 2019

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ1RHXzWsAA3cW-?format=jpg&name=large

*record scratch*

yup, that's me

inconceivable!

Isn’t he incriminating himself basically?

it bears repeating that before any republican senator can worry about getting reelected, they have to worry about getting through their primaries. a "no" impeachment vote possibly turning some of their general-election voters against them is a hypothetical, and less and less worrisome the redder your state is. a "yes" impeachment vote turning the overwhelming majority of their primary voters against them is an absolute certainty no matter how red your state is.

other than collins, murkowski, and romney I still can't imagine any republicans voting to remove now.

Wow, Ken Starr making a strong case for obstruction and contempt of Congress charges on Fox right now. Cites Nixon. Says he's changed his mind on these proceedings. "It's over. There will be articles on impeachment."

— Tom Watson (@tomwatson) November 20, 2019

lol, great photo

There are plenty of Republican senators from places like Wyoming who don't need any votes from non-Republicans to win elections, But there are enough of them who need 'independent' voters that the caucus won't hold firm and the messaging will start to diverge, doubts will be admitted, some shock will be expressed, a sub-group will confess themselves "deeply troubled" and make public appeals to Trump to honor the subpoenas, etc. These would be the visible preludes to vote-switching.

^ All this being conditioned on a further notable swing in public opinion toward removal.

He ain't getting removed by the Senate.

But this might now start impacting more than just the Presidential election and start hurting the Senate races.

this doesn't change the Senate calculus for GOP Senators at all. As noted, they can't get re-elected without the base. The only ones in danger have already been noted, and there aren't enough of them to make any difference during a Senate trial. The only thing that will move the needle in the Senate GOP caucus is if the GOP base turns against Trump like they did with Dubya, and there are no indications that that is likely to happen.

xps

other than collins, murkowski, and romney I still can't imagine any republicans voting to remove now

agreed and Collins is such a troll now i could almost see her saying fuck it let's be legends.

anyway, Ben Sasse should be spat on in public for the rest of his life.

I imagine the only fallback from this point is that god wanted Trump to ratfuck Biden to save America from abortion and gays

He speaks!

I came into this at Volker’s request. Sondland is speculating based on VERY little contact. I never met him and had very few calls with him, mostly with Volker.

Volker testified I answered their questions and described them as my opinions, NOT demands. I.E., no quid pro quo!

— Rudy Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) November 20, 2019

In response:

If Rudy's focus on Burisma, 2016 was just opinion, why the hold on the aid, why couldn't Pompeo, Bolton, and Esper get it lifted, ignore his requests? https://t.co/CyEUTlyyTJ

— Mieke Eoyang (@MiekeEoyang) November 20, 2019

Ah for fun

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will be making a statement to the press at State Department at 2:20 pm/ET so stay tuned...

— Amee Vanderpool (@girlsreallyrule) November 20, 2019

Probably be something like "Oh morale's great here."

anyway, Ben Sasse should be spat on in public for the rest of his life.

this cannot be repeated enough times

what this will do is drive outrage against the GOP in general when he gets acquitted in the Senate - the election will be a referendum on the party, and that's good for the Democrats, who are likely to have a weak candidate that doesn't poll that great nationally imo.

what's Trump's approval rate among Republicans going to fall to? 82%?

if that happens the GOP will get completely wiped out in 2020

dunno why anyone cares what Ken Starr thinks, the Dems probably had the articles drafted and the votes to impeach him weeks ago tbrr

xps

I think it's unlikely that the Democrats will have a candidate who polls poorly nationally given they have at least 4 potentials who are polling pretty well when considered independently rather than in comparison to each other

It's cos Ken Starr himself was calling this a bullshit nothingburger and now even he is like..."well, fuck"

Jiggly Panda for Prez

after 6 months of brutal campaigning in which none of them drop out and all of them have knifed each other repeatedly, I'd doubt any of their polling numbers are gonna be better than Hillary's. But we'll see!

xp

this is the first time i've ever listened to nunes; he makes no sense.

a stupid footnote to this era - our president couldn't even spell (not even close) the name of the president of Ukraine, who was a central figure in this whole debacle

nunes is reading from the script that he prepared a couple months ago - he's not a "nimble thinker"

Rudy must have changed his mind because he's already deleted that tweet...

Um

https://i.ibb.co/DWMcvBm/ee4d60b9-f9ee-4b41-9aae-cfc4e2d4fc10.jpg

his is the first time i've ever listened to nunes; he makes no sense.

― Fuck the NRA (ulysses)

nunesense!

I can't see Berniebros, for ex, swallowing their principles and voting for Biden or Mayor Pete, I just don't see it. And vice versa

sondland hates nunes

most of them did for clinton, tho

Plus the bigger issue is voter suppression

most of them did for clinton, tho

― gbx, Wednesday, November 20, 2019 9:47 AM (thirty-six seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

yup. going to post this on ilx for the 100th time, more "bernie bros" voted for clinton in the general than clinton supporters voted for obama in the general in 08

Biden and Pete both demonstrably worse than Hillary policy-wise imo

Plus the bigger issue is voter suppression

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Wednesday, November 20, 2019

can we please keep posting this? Especially if things get uncomfortable for the GOP in Georgia and Texas suburbs.

Plus the bigger issue is voter suppression

this is true. Dem turnout needs to be as high as possible to counter both dynamics.

Need lots of watchdogs, not just at the polls on election days but anytime between now and then where any disenfranchisement at all. Blow each one up and constantly make it national news

Those Trump notes sound like Radiohead lyrics circa Kid A.

you'd think the Smartest Man on the Planet could remember those talking points instead of writing them on notes hmmm maybe he's actually a big dumb turd

Rhyming "Nothing" with "right thing" suggests he's moved slightly past his rhyme dictionary days but not quite ready to drop knowledge on us yet