Ne'er get thee stitched til Booris be ditched: UK General Election 2019

I would ask people focused on leadership (or Corbyn’s apparent lack thereof) as a concept to set out what attributes their ideal leader has. Is it a sense of being ‘commanding’? Do you just want to be told what to do all the time? Do you want to feel like part of a team, or like you are being listened to? Or do you just want to see the manager and know that your say-so will get that little shit in trouble?

no shit there are more than two parties, but under fptp only two have a chance of running the government and in a lot of constituencies voting for the one means the other is more likely to get in?

Like I could vote Green, but doing so only makes it more likely my seat stays Tory...?

Either they're not really very politically inclined and just voted Labour because that's what their parents did and then got swayed by peers or the media, or maybe they've always been third-way capitalists who <3 Blair and want to bomb Iraq all over again...

Almost certainly the former.

it's fine to think Jerzy Cromulent might not be the best potential PM, but that always has to be judged in comparison to the alternative, does it not? The Tories haven't exactly set a high bar here have they.

even if you don't like Corbyn does that mean you have to be crypto-tory melt? Is that also a binary choice?:p Generally I think somebody voting for the party with the most left-wing policies is a pretty good barometer of where their politics are at, unless they are voting with a nose peg on and really just luurve austerity.

Another Tory candidate suspended over anti-Semitism claims btw.

A Tory candidate who claimed British Jews who visited Israel returned “brainwashed” has been suspended from the party, the Press Association reports. The PA story goes on:

"Amjad Bashir, who is standing for election in the Leeds North East constituency, apologised this week for the comments and said he intends to meet local Jewish groups and travel to Israel “to gain direct experience from the situation on the ground there”.

A Conservative spokesman said: “Mr Bashir has been suspended from the party pending investigation and election support has been withdrawn.”

A pro-Brexit restaurateur, Bashir was elected as a Ukip MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber in 2014 before he defected to the Conservatives in 2015."

My point is that it's not uncommon and it has to be acknowledged as a thing that is happening. I find the sour-grapes 'didn't want you anyway' attitude I'm hearing from Labour supporters quite frustrating as I feel it's actively putting people off from coming back to the party.

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Wednesday, 20 November 2019 bookmarkflaglink

Lol, what a set of excuses! Anything not to vote Labour!

I hate this 'If you don't <3 Corbyn your a Tory' partisanship, like it's some sort of binary choice, or a barometre of how left-wing someone is.

If you live in a seat where it matters your choice is between contributing to the continuance of this government, or contributing to its removal. Liking is irrelevant

if you live in a seat where it doesn't matter go to the pub instead, its ok

It's s binary choice except in about 25 seats in England

i didn't realise any of the parties had an antisemitism policy tbh, or a Remain policy that's more important than trying to stop poor people from dying

what if the pub's not open yet, can i just drink some cans in the playground outside the polling station same as always

Thats the binary choice. one of two people will be PM next month. the rest is posturing and balloons

Another Tory candidate suspended over anti-Semitism claims btw.

_A Tory candidate who claimed British Jews who visited Israel returned “brainwashed” has been suspended from the party, the Press Association reports. The PA story goes on:

"Amjad Bashir, who is standing for election in the Leeds North East constituency, apologised this week for the comments and said he intends to meet local Jewish groups and travel to Israel “to gain direct experience from the situation on the ground there”.

A Conservative spokesman said: “Mr Bashir has been suspended from the party pending investigation and election support has been withdrawn.”

A pro-Brexit restaurateur, Bashir was elected as a Ukip MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber in 2014 before he defected to the Conservatives in 2015."_

anvil stop encouraging me to go to the pub

xxxp
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ce/3b/6c/ce3b6c30c33b2993aa203798a9b3c0a7.jpg

i had some Angry Birds pop once

My point is that it's not uncommon and it has to be acknowledged as a thing that is happening. I find the sour-grapes 'didn't want you anyway' attitude I'm hearing from Labour supporters quite frustrating as I feel it's actively putting people off from coming back to the party.

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Wednesday, 20 November 2019 bookmarkflaglink

Lol, what a set of excuses! Anything not to vote Labour!

― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:30 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah I, like... don't expect anyone to vote labour because they like me personally and want to please me, y'know?

xp were you charged for it?

I love the idea of supping cans outside the polling station. the most aggressive and pissed up exit poll ever: "who've you voted for? ya fucking insipid melt bastahrd!"

xp

i was, it was pleasant, i think passionfruit was involved

The complete inertia of British political culture really unnerves me. Revealing a massive network of child sex abuse by very powerful public figures didn't change anything. A fascist assassinating an MP didn't change anything.

— Mediocredave (@MediocreDave) November 20, 2019

What massive network of child sex abuse by very powerful public figures?

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/372542050914_/12-Mr-Blobby-Santa-Shaped-Mini-Foil-Balloon.jpg

Did someone say balloons? Yep, someone def said balloons.

Cyril Smith was massive

Who ate all the squirrels? Could well have been big C

What massive network of child sex abuse by very powerful public figures?

― 'Skills' Wallace (Tom D.), Wednesday, 20 November 2019 bookmarkflaglink

Assuming we are talking about Epstein and Andrew.

never heard of it nothing to see here

with some of their previous leaders being a 200 stone paedophile and someone who hired a contract killer to murder a dog, i guess Jo's squirrel cull and love of nuclear annihilation is part of a LibDem tradition of having leaders who are not reet in the fucking head. I'm not bringing Charlie's alcoholism into this, because at least he was not a tory and a principled politician who actually stood for some kind of opposition.

how dare you calz Jo Swindon opposes everything except dismantling the welfare state

Second off, some people might think Labour aren't strong enough on issues like Europe or antisemitism. Or they're questioning how he proposes to pull off his campaign promises. Or they might just think he'd make a rubbish PM.

Reasons that have nothing to do with his image (assuming there's more behind the third one than image). I was being specific so my point stands.

If Jo had a position on people living in 1920's style Hoovervilles but with tents that is as strong and focused as her position on Europe, perhaps that might make her something approaching a .. Liberal democrat

cyril smith was chief whip for a while and a senior figure but never actually the liberal leader (david steel basically succeeded thorpe, with jo grimond returning very briefly as interim acting leader)

i don't even know what Swindon's position on Europe is apart from "it's all Corbyn's fault"

xp
blame Alexi Sayle!

bollox to brexit and bollox to old liberal ideas like social assistance that are the old way of doing things

tbh i'm still reeling from the semiotics of the blobby lemonade tin

(= "i have to piss, it's what you're drinking")

he never disappoints

I'm not bringing Charlie's alcoholism into this, because at least he was not a tory and a principled politician who actually stood for some kind of opposition.

coincidentally only liberal democrat leader ever to be toppled by mutiny within the party

Air Passenger Duty raised £3.6 bn last year. Lib Dems want to squeeze an extra £4.8 bn out of passengers. Anyone taking 3 or more international return flights a year will pay progressively more for each additional flight. Details vague but tax appears aimed at business travellers pic.twitter.com/PnP4aSe86C

— Joel Hills (@ITVJoel) November 20, 2019

Intrigued by how this is meant to work in practice.

they tattoo a little airplane icon on your face every time you fly

taxing frequent flying is ... probably a good thing and almost certainly progressive? the key is how to administer it

if only she was as clear on her other policies as she is on bollox to brexit and the nuclear annihilation of millions of people

xxxp sucks to be you

I'm presuming this would be quite an expensive and complicated policy to get started, but might be good in the long run?

If the funds raised were ring-fenced and used to develop a low emission plane then maybe.

lol good to see Boris leaking the NI threshold being raised - could cost up to £17 billion?

nuclear planes yall

can they be used against squirrels?

I would ask people focused on leadership (or Corbyn’s apparent lack thereof) as a concept to set out what attributes their ideal leader has. Is it a sense of being ‘commanding’? Do you just want to be told what to do all the time? Do you want to feel like part of a team, or like you are being listened to? Or do you just want to see the manager and know that your say-so will get that little shit in trouble?

― santa clause four (suzy), Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:22 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

no shit there are more than two parties, but under fptp only two have a chance of running the government and in a lot of constituencies voting for the one means the other is more likely to get in?

― gyac, Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:23 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Like I could vote Green, but doing so only makes it more likely my seat stays Tory...?

― gyac, Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:24 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Lol, what a set of excuses! Anything not to vote Labour!

― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:30 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm having difficulty parsing suzy's post though... What's this all about? There are plenty of people who would say Corbyn is a terrible listener: one-track minded, inflexible to other's views, and in some ways tyrannical.

Maybe I'm speaking from the privileged perspective of being in a safe Labour seat, so I could happily vote Green in good conscience. I know that's not the case for a lot of people, in which case I'd say vote tactically to get the Tories out, whoever that may be.

I'm still undecided as to whether I'll vote Labour or Green yet. Could very well be Labour, but it's beside the point.

I'm irked by the nasty, chiding attitude I'm seeing from certain quarters whereby Labour supporters will turn on anyone who dares criticise Corbyn with a kneejerk: 'You must hate the NHS and poor people, fuck off back to your mansion crypto-Tory scum!'. I don't think this is helpful and I wouldn't be surprised if it drove floating voters away.

'Any excuse to vote Tory'? This is a derisive hand-waving away of some of the very real concerns everyday people have about voting Labour in 2019. It shouldn't be 'hold your nose or fuck off'. Sure the rightwing will jump on things like the antisemitism issue and blow it out of proportion, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or shouldn't be addressed. Similarly, if one is a Remainer, how confident should they feel if Corbyn (in my eyes a eurosceptic) comes to power and a second referendum points to Remain?

If someone is left-liberal but held-back about issues such as Europe or antisemitism or public spending strategies or Corbyn's overall leadership and media-handling skills, wouldn't it be better to address these maturely and in a more nuanced way than 'Stop believing the MSM' or worse 'If you don't like it, you're a traitor to the cause, spreading rightwing lies'.

dog latin, do you consider the core values of labour to be "left liberal"? because the answer to yr question very much depends on that.