"The Wire" on HBO

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i love method man: "that shit was unseemly!'

also very happy to see the brief return of kimmie, though for her sake i hope she meant what she said about being retired.

― lauren, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:29 (nineteen years ago)

Seeing Frank Sobotka on the "Black Donnellys" hurts me deep. Also, that show sucks.

― jeff, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

Jeff on the scrilla.

― Oilyrags, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:39 (nineteen years ago)

Man my heart leapt when McNulty thought he spotted Port Authority Cop whatshername in Season 3 and then it wasn't her. I was like "Seasonal Character Returns!! Yes!!" But then she didn't.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

you mean Beadie? you haven't watched Season 4 yet, have you? I won't spoil how she shows up again.

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I'm stuck waiting on the DVDs. I guess I could just torrent it, but I've become obsessed with hearing everything over my newish speakers.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

season 2 lovers be preferring a whiter cast, lol

that snoop article is kinda sad, almost foreboding

― am0n, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

season 2 lovers be ~~preferring a whiter cast~~

obsessed with the politics of work and capitalism,

lol

― Oilyrags, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

ha the other seasons don't touch on that AT ALL

― am0n, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

</troll>

― am0n, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

you mean Beadie? you haven't watched Season 4 yet, have you? I won't spoil how she shows up again

Or the last ep. of season 3, even. I haven't seen 4 either.

Oilyrags OTM w/reasons for season 2 love. I think it also has to do with how effectively it metastasized and added nuance to the ideas of the first season. I loved the first season, but it wasn't until the middle of the second that I entered holy-shit-this-is-the-greatest-thing-that-has-ever-been-on-television mode.

Now (or after the third season at least) season 2 looks comparatively shoddy--the ideas and themes introduced are necessary to how the show functions, but adding a different milieu and set of characters who, as far as I've seen, are yet to reappear seems so much less graceful in light of season three (and the Barksdale and police investigation story-lines in season 2) where they're able to the same kind of brilliant expansion while dealing with a set of characters more narratively connected to the first season.

― C0L1N B..., Wednesday, 21 March 2007 19:12 (nineteen years ago)

Frankly, I'd feel differently about Season 2 if the dockworkers had showed up again at all, I think.

― max, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

what about the snoop article is foreboding? is she dead?

also, elements of season 2 pop up in the last episode in season 4

― cutty, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

Frankly, I'd feel differently about Season 2 if the dockworkers had showed up again at all, I think.

I agree! I'm not saying they should reappear but the season just kind of seems like this weird blemish in a show that otherwise doesn't have to look elsewhere to do what they need to thematically.

― C0L1N B..., Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:24 (nineteen years ago)

Colin and Max have made some damn good points. I may have to reconsider my s2>>>s3 stance.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:28 (nineteen years ago)

"but adding a different milieu and set of characters who, as far as I've seen, are yet to reappear seems so much less graceful in light of season three"

Um the Greeks are still there. They are still providing Prop Joe with the drugs.

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:42 (nineteen years ago)

what about the snoop article is foreboding? is she dead?

seems negative about her future in acting, like everything is hinged upon it, chances are slim, etc.

― am0n, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:42 (nineteen years ago)

I have to say, when she claimed she could play "girly" roles, I was pretty dubious. But who knows?

― Oilyrags, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:54 (nineteen years ago)

nice race baiting amon

i think season 2 tends to be underrated. i often hear people complain that its the worst season but i found the intrigue behind the whole The Greek crime org. to be fascinating. Season 3 seemed tame in many ways - it was setting up the next season and finishing off the first season, or something.

― deej, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 22:00 (nineteen years ago)

I think season two is more uneven than the others. That being said the montage in the final episode is one of my favorite things ever. Also I can't think of too many programs about ethnic working class life that get it right. Season two does.

― leavethecapital, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 22:12 (nineteen years ago)

how do the drugs get in - da dox

who's more than willing to look the other way these days - da guys on da dox

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

Right, I understand why, even just practically, we need to know about the docks and that implicitly the Greeks are 'around' for the rest of the show. All I'm saying is that the shift from the second season revolving around the docks to their disappearance from the third seaons (unless you count the "re-elect Frank Sabotka" poster in the montage) is one of the few things on the show that wasn't handled seemlessly. This isn't a complaint or criticizism, I'm just mentioning in relation to ranking the seasons.

― C0L1N B..., Wednesday, 21 March 2007 22:35 (nineteen years ago)

haha for a second I thought you were saying that Baltimore's big drug connect went through Club Paradox (what people usually mean when they refer to "the dox" around here).

I'd love to know how fact-based the Season 2 storyline is, given how many head shops there are in Greektown.

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 22:36 (nineteen years ago)

Alex, have you read The Wire: Truth Be Told? It's written by Raphael Alvarez who writes for the show and grew up in a Baltimore steevedor family. I don't think it has quite what you're looking for (making this assumption from the "head shops in Greektown" line) but it has lot of other info on factual bases for events/characters/storylines from the show.

― C0L1N B..., Wednesday, 21 March 2007 22:47 (nineteen years ago)

those head shops (is there more than two?) are more highlandtown i thought

― am0n, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 23:06 (nineteen years ago)

karmic connection -> the "tibetan connection"??

― am0n, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 23:08 (nineteen years ago)

WHAT ABOUT PIMLICO

(i just like saying PIMLICO)

― cutty, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 23:15 (nineteen years ago)

yeah maybe it is more Highlandtown, I've only heard about them second-hand.

haven't read the Wire book, but I definitely want to. in the middle of Homicide: A Year On The Killing Streets right now.

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 23:42 (nineteen years ago)

regarding season 2: the dude i met from the cast told me that pretty much every one of the actors agrees that s2 was a big screw-up. cue drudge sirens!

― modestmickey, Thursday, 22 March 2007 03:04 (nineteen years ago)

I dunno if I'd put too much stock in the opinion of a group of actors who lost a bunch of screen-time in that season.

― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 22 March 2007 03:27 (nineteen years ago)

well, there was also the totally unrealistic magical reunion of the detail on the s2 case. i mean.. the stuff about the greeks and the dockworkers was important i just think they should've found another way to make a case out of it.. also spent more time on d'angelo, stringer, avon.. especially d'angelo, i miss him. and less time on ziggy, who is like about 20 kids i knew in college and hope to never cross paths with again..

― daria-g, Thursday, 22 March 2007 03:33 (nineteen years ago)

The reunion was obviously a little contrived, but they at least managed to do it in a way that fit the bosses' logic.

― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 22 March 2007 03:40 (nineteen years ago)

the homicide book is great. i think they mention the hit song that summer being "it takes two" which is funny in regards to b-more club

i liked s2 but it might as well have been its own show or a spinoff. maybe they'll find a way to tie it back in with s5

― am0n, Thursday, 22 March 2007 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

that chapter w/ "it takes two," with the prison riot and everything, is incredible
i love that book.

― deej, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I need to pick up The Corner at some point too.

― Alex in SF, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

Be sure you have your antidepressant scrips all filled up when you do.

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

s2 seemed like it lacked focus. the whole introduction to the major criminal case was so contrived. i mean, a little church rivalry? get the fuck out of here. even if it doesn't seem forced, you have to admit that it's not nearly as intriguing as what we were used to be in s1. then, like said above, the detail's reunion is just absurd script writing magic. and the whole season switches between so many different stories, feeling the need to still have something move with stringer, avon, etc, although not focus on it, that there's not much that happens in any one of the plot lines. what's even weirder is by the time the detail is finally arranged and it's time to investigate the case, there's what, 3 episodes left? the majority of the case work is done in a fast-forward montage of clips with music playing since the writers realized they didn't actually have time for any of that anymore.

― modestmickey, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

i think it's OK. and i loved the church rivalry thing. that is totally the way some horrible things get set in motion, they start with dumb childish grudges and move through one upmanship to something more serious. or less serious. the main thing i didn't like about s2 is that i just didn't want to spend that much time with ziggy and his perpetually pissed-off brother. characters in tv shows are like people that you're spending time with instead of spending time with actual friends and those two just didn't do it for me.

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

I dunno, I liked the stained glass church window catalyst, it seemed like the kind of random thing that could actually happen (albeit more plausible a few decades ago when more of the police dept. brass were Catholic from European immigrant family types and the community was more church-based). I need to re-watch that season sometime but the way the old major crimes unit came back together in it didn't strike me as any more contrived or unlikely than a lot of other minor details in the show that bug me more than they should.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

the wire is all about the dumb and childish or seemingly insignificant reasons that set horrible things in motion, though.

― lauren, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

haha xpost, what Tracer said. Maybe some of this kind of thing is in the Alvarez book, but I think the one thing I'd be most interested to ask Simon or Burns or any of the other Wire writers if I ever interviewed them or something, is about the biggest continuity errors and plot contrivances that they've pulled off or regret not catching until it was too late. A show like that, where there's so much attention to detail to make its universe feel real and lived-in, I think it'd be pretty interesting to know what they've screwed up.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

but yeah, s2 does feel caught by its affection for all of the characters and storylines. it's pulled in a bunch of different directions and seems to want to devote equal time to everything, and things end up being a bit confused.

― lauren, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

I really like season 2's expansiveness--not that the other seasons are myopic in their focus or anything, but season 2 just tries so hard to pull so much in and to me it mostly works.

― Alex in SF, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

I'm always kinda surprised that that's one of the stock complaints about Season 2, but not Season 4, where that seemed, to me, to be as much or more of a problem. Maybe it was just that the schoolkids were more popular new characters to introduce than the dockworkers, but I felt like as well as S4 pulled together all the divergent strands, it could've been done better. There were a couple episodes at a time where I was left wondering what happened to a character or if their storyline would be continued at all.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:04 (nineteen years ago)

The only season that's really focused is the first one actually.

― Alex in SF, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:08 (nineteen years ago)

i didn't feel that way at all. i thought that in general s4 was an example of expansiveness done right.

― lauren, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

Ziggy hate makes no sense to me at all. The Sobatkas in general just kill me. Nicky's "you're white, I'm white" speech to Frog? Man...

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:18 (nineteen years ago)

i like the perpetually pissed off brother, but how is anyone going to like ziggy?

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

A show like that, where there's so much attention to detail to make its universe feel real and lived-in, I think it'd be pretty interesting to know what they've screwed up.

Alex in Baltimore on Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:58 AM (20 minutes ago)

i could be wrong about this, i'd have to re-watch, but... my friend who i'm watching this show with always jokes about how the dude i met in the show, the black cop whose name i can't remember, just kind of disappears for long stretches of time and then randomly pops back up. "what's up guys, how's this case going? oh, jump on some roof? word." i'm pretty sure when the studio magic of the detail reunion happens and everyone is sitting in one room together, he's not there at all - he's been completely forgotten. then later in the season he's magically back on the case doing stuff. haha

― modestmickey, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

i don't 'like' ziggy but i don't like plenty of characters
i do KNOW ziggy tho, or have known people like him, which is why he resonates.

― deej, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

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