2019-20 NBA Regular Degular Season thread join us here bud!
― Clay, Thursday, 31 October 2019 01:27 (four years ago) link
ilhoops is the best board and also a place for positive exemplars of masculinity (ie me)
― i'm not a government man; i'm a government, man. (m bison), Thursday, 31 October 2019 01:36 (four years ago) link
Easiest path to being sports-conversant - only pay attention to the playoffs. Paying attention to December basketball is work, if you wait til May things are more exciting.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 31 October 2019 01:48 (four years ago) link
I got into soccer 5 years ago and it made my life more fun
― When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Thursday, 31 October 2019 01:56 (four years ago) link
But lord is it harder to fake in convo
the idea of art as the ultimate luxury commoditycheap art is the best. i’ve discussed the “ultimate luxury commodity” bit with friends and it usually means one of:- artwashing- status symbol- money laundering
― mh, Thursday, 31 October 2019 01:57 (four years ago) link
ding. ding. ding.
― treeship., Thursday, 31 October 2019 02:23 (four years ago) link
Soccer is cool because (having never played it or watched on TV until this decade) I can't tell good from bad so MLS is just as interesting/dramatic as a Champions League match.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 31 October 2019 02:24 (four years ago) link
the "art world"--or art market more like, the gallery world--is the weirdest and most disingenuous thing. sometimes there is good worked mixed up in it, some is nonsense, but the way it is all discussed is strange. especially because so much of the work, and the language around the work, is heavily political and almost always left wing, but the people who collect the stuff are weapons manufacturers and investors in private prisons and whatever. i just get vertigo in this world. i hope my employer does not know my ilx name.
― treeship., Thursday, 31 October 2019 02:26 (four years ago) link
idk what this has to do with masculinity
Treeser Soze
― When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Thursday, 31 October 2019 02:33 (four years ago) link
more like, tangent treesh.
― treeship., Thursday, 31 October 2019 02:45 (four years ago) link
<3
― esempio (crüt), Thursday, 31 October 2019 02:51 (four years ago) link
https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/NewAnswersControllerServlet?boardid=1078909029
get over here
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Thursday, 31 October 2019 03:46 (four years ago) link
no, cricket is literally the only sport I know due to coworker pressure and when someone asks me about another sport I can only shrug because... not cricket
Ha, sorry champ (link nsfw)
― Vernon Locke, Thursday, 31 October 2019 03:50 (four years ago) link
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/the-miseducation-of-the-american-boy/603046/
― Mordy, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 01:34 (four years ago) link
Nah
― lumen (esby), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 02:09 (four years ago) link
i think it's good - i've always liked orenstein
― Mordy, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 02:10 (four years ago) link
Anything that promises it will speak comprehensively about "the American boy" tells me it is cast in a journalistic mode that will invariably be unequal to the intellectual task its title pretends to address. I know authors rarely get to choose the titles that appear over their work, but it's just hard for me to believe in the quality of a magazine essay, when it is so evidently under the editorial control of imbeciles.
<\old_man_yelling_at_clouds>
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 02:44 (four years ago) link
it's a good essay/report
― peloton for the painfully alone (m bison), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 02:56 (four years ago) link
Hey, at least it's not by Caitlin Flanagan or Christina Hoff Sommers.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:21 (four years ago) link
i read it
― Bo Johnson Overdrive (crüt), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:31 (four years ago) link
i don't know peggy orenstein or caitlin flanagan or christina hoff sommers though
― Bo Johnson Overdrive (crüt), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:33 (four years ago) link
idk i feel like i have read this article a million times. i am so much less interested in exacting description of the symptoms than i am of ideas for the cure.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:40 (four years ago) link
eggy poorenstein(idk who she is either)
― Simon H., Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:40 (four years ago) link
i feel like i have read this article a million times.
you surely have, it's pt. 34985859340293849494 in the 'men (bad) should be women (good)' series. there's nothing wrong with these kids. teenagers are horny??? men laugh at jokes their friends make instead of chastising them for being inappropriate???? my stars, it all just makes me want to cry
― lumen (esby), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:52 (four years ago) link
you could try shutting the fuck up sometimes
― peloton for the painfully alone (m bison), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:53 (four years ago) link
not even all the time! just sometimes
― lumen (esby), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:56 (four years ago) link
The thing where Cole joined the military after learning about the My Lai massacre and wanting to be in a position to stop it happening again but can't call out his fellow soldiers on their casual use of slurs is interesting. You get the sense he thinks of moral behavior as capital you can hold and decide to spend or not, and he's saving up all his for some future event, not wanting to waste it on what he deems inconsequential bad behavior. But that's like he's trying to rest up for a marathon!
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 04:11 (four years ago) link
― peloton for the painfully alone (m bison), Monday, December 16, 2019 10:53 PM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
nah all the time would work
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 04:14 (four years ago) link
i was tryina be nice but yeah
― peloton for the painfully alone (m bison), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 04:14 (four years ago) link
51ing time
― 100 Percent That Grinch (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 04:15 (four years ago) link
i am so much less interested in exacting description of the symptoms than i am of ideas for the cure.
in Susan Faludi's (very good imo) book Stiffed, she makes the case that capitalism/atomisation has destroyed one of the key components of male identity, which was helping the community out as a group (the example she uses is barn-raisings, a thing of the past now). so in a word, my answer to this is "community" which of of course one of the many mortal enemies of capitalism. I think we just have to wait for late-period capitalism to devour itself before we can begin to address how it has affected "masculinity". I also think the advent of public transgender consciousness might help with all of this, idk
― sleeve, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 04:20 (four years ago) link
oops:
which ofis of course
― sleeve, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 04:21 (four years ago) link
I also feel like I've read that article a million times and I always feel like there is something missing from them although I've been trying for a long time to articulate it. It's like there's some depth or nuance of the experience that they don't really capture, it becomes this very 2D sort of male pressure cooker where your entire life as a boy is just other boys punching you on the arm and calling you a bitch, and you're either that or the sort of 180 degree opposite of it and outside of "jock culture" entirely, in which case you are a skinny poetry guy or something. Maybe I just grew up in kind of an anomalous setting but I didn't feel like it was that simple. Separately I also think these articles often fail to capture what the participants in the culture get out of it, as though they're only in it because they're being tortured into it, and I mean "get out of it" in both good and more sinister senses. But the good ones are important too.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 04:47 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOgwP9wROrY
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 05:14 (four years ago) link
― peloton for the painfully alone (m bison), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 03:53 (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
aggressive dominant response.
article, as far as i got into it, was as said upthread, same as all the others rly
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 08:23 (four years ago) link
I didn't find this particularly enlightening either tbh, feels like it could have been written 25 years ago, which is itself a sign of something but it came off superficial to me
― Simon H., Tuesday, 17 December 2019 08:35 (four years ago) link
ilx needs a barnraising
― sarahell, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 09:02 (four years ago) link
There wasn't much new there, but thought this was a good metaphor to use when discussing this stuff with people who refuse to get it
Instructing them to “respect women” and to “not get anyone pregnant” isn’t enough. As one college sophomore told me, “That’s kind of like telling someone who’s learning to drive not to run over any little old ladies and then handing him the car keys. Well, of course you think you’re not going to run over an old lady. But you still don’t know how to drive.”
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 09:02 (four years ago) link
how do you feel about the lads
what if yer lads started becoming the lads
what aspects of that would you feel the need to interrogate and curb if need be, what aspects might be healthy or would you not understand enough to make a call on, etc
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 09:05 (four years ago) link
at my high school in the early 90s it seemed like every boy's energy was directed at not being gay or a boff, so removing the homophobia and anti-intellectualism would be a start, but even without either of those it was a toxic environment.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 09:11 (four years ago) link
high school is or isn't UK?
uk lad culture, the parts you know of that are ok, the parts that youd be wary of, though?
i mean i think the perspective of an ilx parent heading into this could be interesting but tbbh (and with much love) the memories of ilxors of how much they resented jocks in their own school days kind of isnt what i was looking for in asking!
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 09:16 (four years ago) link
(we have twenty years of threads on one, but im not sure we have much of the other perspective, is all)
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 09:17 (four years ago) link
think it's officially called 'secondary' rather than 'high' in UK but everyone called it the latter.I have little or no idea what the positive aspects of lad culture are here, I have never felt part of it.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 09:25 (four years ago) link
my boy turns 17 next month. the main difference I note between his life and mine is how much more central drugs are for his peers than they were for mine.
I am generally pro bro though
― L'assie (Euler), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 10:29 (four years ago) link
I also think the advent of public transgender consciousness might help with all of this, idk
― sleeve
i hope so? but at the same time if the issue is "how does one be a healthy well-adjusted cis man" i have nothing i can possibly offer from my personal experience!
― Agnes Motörhead (rushomancy), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 16:10 (four years ago) link
The solution I've come to in my adulthood is if you lift weights and act confident you can get away with not acting sterotypically bro-like on most other fronts. It also helps to work for a woman-owned company with a relatively good balance of men and women in the workplace. And also I think hanging out with other "involved" dads (assuming there is a significant group who are not involved) kind of self selects for gentler and more decent guys.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 16:42 (four years ago) link
I sort of wish I had discovered the weights part as a youth, but IDK if that would have exempted me from toxic stuff or just thrust me into it more. Going to an arts high school with a large openly gay population also made it a lot harder to waste time worrying about not being thought gay.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 16:43 (four years ago) link