Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

masculinity wins again

masculinity wins so much that masculinity is getting tired of winning

the no, cricket is literally the only sport I know due to coworker pressure and when someone asks me about another sport I can only shrug because... not cricket

an errant “the” was prefaced, whoops

i want to get more into sports.

i've worked in the "art world" for the past two years and have learned a lot of information about contemporary art. i wish i could swap this information out for knowledge about the nba.

ILH is always looking for new recruits!

there are incredible artists doing amazing things right now -- don't get me wrong -- but also a lot of hype. and the idea of art as the ultimate luxury commodity has really worn me down--just the whole lifestyle around it. sports is more honest.

the season just started so this is a good time. i see the knicks are losing to the orlando magic.

is it OK to become a nets fan? i'm a brooklynite but still--seems ignoble to jump ship.

treesh should def start posting on the good board

as far as jumping ship, you gotta go where your heart leads ya, even if it is to the lol knicks

the knicks have no future to speak of outside of one rather polarizing prospect. the nets now employ two weird malcontents as their best players, one of whom is out for the season. there's no right answer here, my friend.

yeah the long-term prob with the knicks is they are going to be bad for the rest of our lives more or less

just tuned into the nets. playing against the hated pacers.

2019-20 NBA Regular Degular Season thread join us here bud!

ilhoops is the best board and also a place for positive exemplars of masculinity (ie me)

Easiest path to being sports-conversant - only pay attention to the playoffs. Paying attention to December basketball is work, if you wait til May things are more exciting.

I got into soccer 5 years ago and it made my life more fun

But lord is it harder to fake in convo

the idea of art as the ultimate luxury commodity

cheap art is the best. i’ve discussed the “ultimate luxury commodity” bit with friends and it usually means one of:
- artwashing
- status symbol
- money laundering

ding. ding. ding.

Soccer is cool because (having never played it or watched on TV until this decade) I can't tell good from bad so MLS is just as interesting/dramatic as a Champions League match.

the "art world"--or art market more like, the gallery world--is the weirdest and most disingenuous thing. sometimes there is good worked mixed up in it, some is nonsense, but the way it is all discussed is strange. especially because so much of the work, and the language around the work, is heavily political and almost always left wing, but the people who collect the stuff are weapons manufacturers and investors in private prisons and whatever. i just get vertigo in this world. i hope my employer does not know my ilx name.

idk what this has to do with masculinity

Treeser Soze

more like, tangent treesh.

<3

https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/NewAnswersControllerServlet?boardid=1078909029

get over here

no, cricket is literally the only sport I know due to coworker pressure and when someone asks me about another sport I can only shrug because... not cricket

Ha, sorry champ (link nsfw)

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/the-miseducation-of-the-american-boy/603046/

Nah

i think it's good - i've always liked orenstein

Anything that promises it will speak comprehensively about "the American boy" tells me it is cast in a journalistic mode that will invariably be unequal to the intellectual task its title pretends to address. I know authors rarely get to choose the titles that appear over their work, but it's just hard for me to believe in the quality of a magazine essay, when it is so evidently under the editorial control of imbeciles.

<\old_man_yelling_at_clouds>

it's a good essay/report

Hey, at least it's not by Caitlin Flanagan or Christina Hoff Sommers.

i read it

i don't know peggy orenstein or caitlin flanagan or christina hoff sommers though

idk i feel like i have read this article a million times. i am so much less interested in exacting description of the symptoms than i am of ideas for the cure.

eggy poorenstein

(idk who she is either)

i feel like i have read this article a million times.

you surely have, it's pt. 34985859340293849494 in the 'men (bad) should be women (good)' series. there's nothing wrong with these kids. teenagers are horny??? men laugh at jokes their friends make instead of chastising them for being inappropriate???? my stars, it all just makes me want to cry

you could try shutting the fuck up sometimes

not even all the time! just sometimes

Nah

The thing where Cole joined the military after learning about the My Lai massacre and wanting to be in a position to stop it happening again but can't call out his fellow soldiers on their casual use of slurs is interesting. You get the sense he thinks of moral behavior as capital you can hold and decide to spend or not, and he's saving up all his for some future event, not wanting to waste it on what he deems inconsequential bad behavior. But that's like he's trying to rest up for a marathon!

not even all the time! just sometimes

― peloton for the painfully alone (m bison), Monday, December 16, 2019 10:53 PM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

nah all the time would work

i was tryina be nice but yeah

51ing time

i am so much less interested in exacting description of the symptoms than i am of ideas for the cure.

in Susan Faludi's (very good imo) book Stiffed, she makes the case that capitalism/atomisation has destroyed one of the key components of male identity, which was helping the community out as a group (the example she uses is barn-raisings, a thing of the past now). so in a word, my answer to this is "community" which of of course one of the many mortal enemies of capitalism. I think we just have to wait for late-period capitalism to devour itself before we can begin to address how it has affected "masculinity". I also think the advent of public transgender consciousness might help with all of this, idk

oops:

which ofis of course

I also feel like I've read that article a million times and I always feel like there is something missing from them although I've been trying for a long time to articulate it. It's like there's some depth or nuance of the experience that they don't really capture, it becomes this very 2D sort of male pressure cooker where your entire life as a boy is just other boys punching you on the arm and calling you a bitch, and you're either that or the sort of 180 degree opposite of it and outside of "jock culture" entirely, in which case you are a skinny poetry guy or something. Maybe I just grew up in kind of an anomalous setting but I didn't feel like it was that simple. Separately I also think these articles often fail to capture what the participants in the culture get out of it, as though they're only in it because they're being tortured into it, and I mean "get out of it" in both good and more sinister senses. But the good ones are important too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOgwP9wROrY